Nutrition

IronMikeIronMike rebounds.quit.investedCharter Member
edited March 2012 in General Discussion
And here is the promised start to our "Nutrition" discussion...

http://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/ironmike

Where the hell is IronMike located? Find out here: https://what3words.com/

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  • I having chocolate for breakfast as I'm reading this. :)
  • IronMikeIronMike rebounds.quit.investedCharter Member
    Chocolate is not just for breakfast anymore...

    http://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/ironmike

    Where the hell is IronMike located? Find out here: https://what3words.com/

  • SharkoSharko Sonoma County, CACharter Member
    A quart of steel cut oats 1-2 hours before a long swim....carb drink before jumping in and then a carb drink that stays down at the hour and then every 1/2 hour. General nutrition should include high quality protein after a long work-out with vegies and no refined carbs in the evening such as bread...do that in the morning or at lunch...etc, etc, etc I have done a lot of this so ask questions of my or others at the South End Rowing Club.

    Sharko

    "I never met a shark I didn't like"

  • Can anyone advise if the nutrition plan should be different for a stage swim? I'll be doing 27k one day and another 27k the next. Are there different protein or carb considerations? Sharko - thanks for mentioning no bread for the evening meal.

    I'm a newbie to these distances so welcome any input.
  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member
    said:

    Can anyone advise if the nutrition plan should be different for a stage swim?

    Last year I swam 7 consecutive days to cover the 120 miles of 8 Bridges... between 4 hours and 9.5 hours per day. I kept to what has become my standard feed plan... all liquid 285 cal/hr. Recovery is important... PROTEIN!, as is keeping well hydrated between stages.

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • Dave, obviously no problem sleeping with all the maltodextrin buzzing around inside?

    I can never swim the night after a long training swim if using malto carbs. Did a 20k training recently and I only used 1 bottle of Maxim, I used more of my smoothie instead and I actually slept that night. Of course after day 2 I'm sure you would have slept anyway.
  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member
    Its not the malto that keeps me up at night. Every swim I've ever done > 11 hours has left me in an achy feverish state for the night... sweats, mouth throat sinus sore, lungs hurting etc...
    I love this sport!

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • I'd like to hear more discussion surrounding and subsequent to the Peter Attia webinar during the winter, which evmo covered on his blog. The basic thrust was carbs bad, protein good and a ketogenic diet is best for maximised energy utilization during a long swim, once you are already keto-adapted to this diet.

    I haven't seen any arguments with the science and evmo has followed up on it, but has anyone changed or considered doing it this year for a swim? Or has anyone already done it coldish water? Which was a question that didn't arise on the webinar.

    One of the things Peter Attia mentioned was fat loss, something might be great in theory or even practice but not much use to those of us in cold water who need our bioprene. I do know one aspirant who changed to the Atkin's diet this winter and after the first week adjustment, had no energy deficiency problems and he of course lost some weight. But afaik, his wasn't a long term to do this for his Channel swim.

    I recently (last week) found a malto/superstarch/5% protein http://www.sponser.ch/g3.cms/s_page/79220/s_name/productdetail/s_level/10030/s_product/1035, but that's still mostly similar to how marathon swims have been done (and I won't get to try it on a sea swim for months until the sea warms up more anyway).

    And finally, as evmo pointed out, we all love our carbs, right? So... any further thoughts?
  • SharkoSharko Sonoma County, CACharter Member
    I recently have been using Malto, Waxy Maize and Whey Protein...seems to satisfy the energy and heat needs....Waxy Maize seems to burn longer than the Malto and Whey seems to give balance to the mix...tried it on a 49f swim from Pt Bonita to Aquatic Park on February 8th of this year...might be what I use on my next swims???

    "I never met a shark I didn't like"

  • mrfinbarrmrfinbarr Charter Member
    Interesting comment @loneswimmer re the low carb option. I've been maintaining (well trying to anyway) a low carb diet since August last year but in order to lost weight rather than as a fuel supply source for marathon swims. I think the science behind it is straightforward enough: once your body goes into ketosis there's a energy supply there which will last much longer than the carbs contained in the blood supply, provided, of couse, you're carrying enough fat.

    Tomorrow I intend to do a 12k sea swim in Sandycove so I'll let you know how I get on with this fuel supply.
  • said:

    said:

    Can anyone advise if the nutrition plan should be different for a stage swim?

    Last year I swam 7 consecutive days to cover the 120 miles of 8 Bridges... between 4 hours and 9.5 hours per day. I kept to what has become my standard feed plan... all liquid 285 cal/hr. Recovery is important... PROTEIN!, as is keeping well hydrated between stages.
    Thanks, Dave. One of my crew will be wearing the CIBOWS cap you gave me, a bit of inspiration every time I look up at the boat.

  • IronMikeIronMike rebounds.quit.investedCharter Member
    bump. I'm researching now for a potential long swim next year, so thought I'd bring this back up to the top.

    http://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/ironmike

    Where the hell is IronMike located? Find out here: https://what3words.com/

  • heartheart San Francisco, CACharter Member
    @holte2f, I use Vitargo and am very happy with it.
  • swimchica623swimchica623 Member
    edited December 2013
    @Ironmike how is your research going? I'm worried about my nutrition as well, going into 24 mile Tampa and too happy with gels and water (or water/Gatorade mix)for other swims up to 6 hours. I can't adjust to the maxim my training partners use, but I can eat gels till the cows come home!
  • IronMikeIronMike rebounds.quit.investedCharter Member
    So far so good, but all my research is with half apple juice/half water with a pinch of salt. I've yet to delve into the world of powdered carb mixes. ;)

    http://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/ironmike

    Where the hell is IronMike located? Find out here: https://what3words.com/

  • im geting ready for a busy season in 2014 and still dont know with what can of carb energy drink to go with...as far as i know you cant find Maxim anywhere in ireland ...so wich one is the best and where to get it guyssss????
  • @JohnyG, Maxim seems to have disappeared last two seasons. You can easily get Vyomax Maxi Carbopro online, it's the same thing, it comes in a huge 5kg tub. You can also find Sponsor Competition and Sponsor Long Energy in a lot of the triathlete shops also High Five which has a 20% protein also. I have used all and they are fine, (I just don't like High Five myself).
  • thank you Donal as always you have the answer ..legend
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member
    edited December 2013
    For the UK http://energysports.co.uk/webpage.php?ChildID=104 they ship to Northern Ireland.
    The Maxim company website is http://maxim-nrg.com/content/us/where_to_buy with more national retailers listed that you could ask for if they ship to Ireland.

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • I'm a big cytomax fan... add a little caffeine to the mix and I'm good to go.
  • ttriventtriven Senior Member
    With the active support of Yakult, FINA Official Partner, 23 of the most well-known specialists in this area discussed from December 13-15, 2013 in the British capital the challenges and strategies concerning the nutritional aspects of the FINA athletes in the five disciplines – Swimming, Diving, Water Polo, Synchronised Swimming and Open Water Swimming.

    Yes, but what were the results? How do we get access to the discussion?

    http://www.fina.org/H2O/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4293:fina-debates-aquatics-nutrition-in-london&catid=225:highlight&Itemid=179
  • Is anyone familiar with the product 'maltotraining' by Punch Power? Is the product as good as the original Maxim?
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    Maxim is pure maltodextrin. If Product X is also pure maltodextrin, then it is as good as Maxim.
  • Just to add my own recent experience for my first long swim. I used Carbopro while training and during my 8bridges swim, just added a little fruit flavor of Miwadi blackcurrant (it's an Irish thing) for taste and it worked really well, really appreciate the advice from this thread. Ordered very easily from Amazon in the US.
  • @daveyswims, I read that as you could get Miwadi on Amazon US! I brought my Miwadi to NY for MIMS. :-)
  • @loneswimmer, No, got the Carbopro on Amazon, had to get the Miwadi smuggled in ;)
  • swimmer25kswimmer25k Charter Member
    Lots of stuff to wade through. I'm pretty simple:

    Use whatever doesn't make you puke.
    SydneD
  • JonMLJonML Member
    Has anyone tried this: http://static.abbottnutrition.com/cms-prod/abbottnutrition.com/img/Vital-1.5-Cal.pdf ? It's a medical product designed for people who can't eat anything normal. The dietician who recommended it to me says it doesn't taste like much of anything, but packs a lot of nutrition into a small volume. She also says it doesn't contain anything on the Olympic banned substances list. I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has tried either this or something else that's designed primarily for medical, not consumer, use.
  • msathletemsathlete Victoria, British Colubia, CanadaSenior Member

    I'm looking to pull together a nutrition plan for a 50 hour solo lake swim and am wondering if anyone has suggestions. I have been function with the assumption I should feed every 30 minutes and consume app 300 calories per hour. My two main challenges are 1) I am a vegan and 2) length of time on the water - gel packs and sports drinks will get very tiring and will not be enough.

    Suggestions would be greatly appreciated

  • j9swimj9swim new york Senior Member

    looking for some help on nutrition - it seems that carbopro won't be making hydra c5 in good flavors again this year and last year i used ucann mixed with carbopro but it still tasted chalky which i didn't really enjoy. Has anyone tried Skratch? Found it in a bike store (because there aren't any stores of marathon swimming) and it tastes good- similar levels of sugar and salt. it looks like a relatively clean product (see below) - any callouts good or bad? Thanks!

    • cane sugar, dextrose, sodium citrate, raspberries, citric acid, magnesium lactate, calcium citrate, potassium citrate, ascorbic acid (Vitamin C).

    http://www.skratchlabs.com/collections/drinks/products/exercise-hydration-mix?variant=466781057

  • Leonard_JansenLeonard_Jansen Charter Member

    The mixture you used last year and Skratch seem to be "chalk and cheese", as the English would say. Last year's was more of a complex carbo mix (albeit with maltodextrin's slightly odd properties) and Skratch is more of a simple carbo mix. If you liked the complex carbo mixture (other than the texture), you can always just get pure maltodextrin and then add some flavoring and electrolytes on your own. (Hammer "Endurolytes" are pretty good.) On a long swim, I'm pretty sure Skratch would give me stomach problems due to the amount of simple carbos.

    -LBJ

    “Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde

  • ChrisgreeneChrisgreene Mercersburg PA/Atlanta, GAMember

    I did a 30K swim on nothing but Maxim and had no hunger at all, I used to mix in goo but no more. Maxim gives some upset stomachs but not me, so of course you'd want to test it first. I swear by the stuff and plan 3 or 4 20+ mile swims this year on nothing but Maxim. And no, they aren't paying me, but I'm willing to listen. ;)

  • SpacemanspiffSpacemanspiff Dallas, TexasSenior Member
    edited January 22

    j9swim said: looking for some help on nutrition - it seems that carbopro won't be making hydra c5 in good flavors again this year

    I started ordering custom blended powders from Infinit Nutrition about a year ago. You literally dial in exactly what you want using a cool slider bar interface. I imagine you could just look at the back of your carbopro hydra C5 and imitate the blend. I like being able to have the same basic formula for every swim but being able to make tweaks based on the unique demands of each.

    "Lights go out and I can't be saved Tides that I tried to swim against Have brought be down upon my knees Oh I beg, I beg and plead..."

  • wendyv34wendyv34 Vashon, WASenior Member

    Have you tried mixing Carbo pro with something else, like an electrolyte/sports drink? I've mixed it with Gatorade Prime and my recent favorite, Golazo (organic, coconut water based). The mango-lime flavor goes well against the taste seawater. I've also added nuun to Carbo pro for flavor and electrolytes.

    It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.

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