The Average Set Thread

loneswimmerloneswimmer Admin
edited November 2012 in General Discussion
We've got the Animal Set Thread.

We've got the Lunchtime Set Thread.

So I guess we could use a thread for the sets in between, the ones most of us do, most of the time. Let's say one to two hours or 2.5 hours if you need, but it'll likely be more about distances, 3 to 7k.

It would be nice to build a repository of main sets for ourselves, rather than going elsewhere, for those who don't write their own sets.
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  • loneswimmerloneswimmer Admin
    edited November 2012
    [Warm up]
    400 fist
    400 f/c e.z
    400 paddles
    200 b/c

    [Pre-main]
    400 f/c 20 secs Rest Interval
    200 f/c 15 secs R.I.
    400 f/c 30 secs R.I.
    200 f/c 10 secs R.I.

    [Main]
    4 x 400s, descending as:

    [1] 400 x BASE 100 time,
    [2] 400 x BASE 100 time minus 10 secs
    [3] 400 x BASE 100 time minus 20 secs
    [4] 400 x BASE 100 time minus 40 secs

    60 secs R.I.

    4 x 100 BASE 100 time minus 10 secs

    [Cool]
    400 b/c

    Total 5000m

    I stole a bit of this from @owenswims93 this morning.
  • ssthomasssthomas Charter Member
    Great Idea! I do so many 6000 pool swims alone in the winter that I get bored out of my mind sometimes. Can't wait to see what some of you are doing. As I think of good ones, I'll share, too. Thanks, @loneswimmer!
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    @loneswimmer, what is your definition of BASE? (sorry, on my iPod now; the forum has no search function that I can find when I'm viewing it on my iPod)

    Is it smthg like, the average time you can hold a 100 in the set 10x100???
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    @loneswimmer, I think I found it from @evmo in the lunchtime set.

    But just so I understand: if I swim 10x100 taking exactly :10 rest between each one (rest totaling :90) in 16:30, is my 100 BASE 1:39 (16:30/10)? or 1:30 ((16:30 minus :90)/10)?
  • @IRonmike, you are are the same speed, your Base speed is the repeat interval you are doing on the 10x100, so you are going on 1:39, (so finishing in 1:30 to 1:35). BASE is your repeat 100s standard time plus standard rest.
  • This is SwimSmooth Paul Newsome's Red Mist set. 4/5k of heart-stopping anti-fun from his blog.

    For this you need to test your 400 and 200 metre best times. Do that on a different day.

    Then you work out your Critical Swim Speed, (CSS).
    Do this by dividing 200 by your time for your 400m, minus your time for 200m: {200/T400-T200}.
    That's your CSS in metres per second.
    Divide 100 by this to get your CSS time for 100m.

    You WILL need a warmup. Then the Red Mist is 10x400s descending

    4x400 at CSS plus 6 seconds per 100m,
    3x400 at CSS plus 5 seconds per 100m,
    2x400 at CSS plus 4 seconds per 100m,
    1x400 at CSS plus 3 seconds per 100m,

    + swim down.

    Ideally it's a rolling set, no break between each set of 400s. Do it once a week according to Paul and retest your 4000 & 200 m times each month and recalculate your CSS. Somedays it's possible, other days it's a very tough set and reminds me of @evmo's Fishburn set.
  • HtimsjHtimsj Member
    Check out www.swimmingcommunity.com
  • MvGMvG NetherlandsMember
    edited June 2013
    I am probably not the best example for varied training programs. But I often use a 'modular' training set both for my standard lunchtime or short morning 5k program and for 10, 15, or 20 km program, and it's simple to memorize and varied enough:

    2500 free - pause - 500 back +500 free + 500 back - pause - 1000 free.

    Obviously you need to include your sprint and more intensive interval trainings as well. But this is something that works for me, and it is easy to monitor progress (or not) as you will get to know your 2500 and 1000m times really well over time. The backstroke breaks up the boredom of freestyle only, & works on the biceps and forearms in direct support of your freestyle power.



  • Bumping this mainly for visibility to new members. Not every set (or even most), is an animal set. - See more at: http://www.marathonswimmers.org/forum/discussion/9/the-lunchtime-set-thread/p1#sthash.9ktMQUje.dpuf

    Absolutely average sets: so average they are mundane.

    100, 200 & 400 variations of a base 100 time eg:

    30x100 on 1:40
    5x400 on 6:40 (same as 100m time)

    or

    5x400 on 6:40
    10x200 on 3:20
    10x100 on 1:40

    or

    50x100 on 1:40
    or

    etc, etc etc

  • I'm not sure if this is considered an average set or lunch-time set. Here is my usual Wendesday night workout. It's in a SCY pool.

    1x500 on 7:30 warm-up
    6x500 broken (200, 150, 100, 50)
    The swims are on 1:20 base/100 except for the 50. That is a little of a recovery swim on :50 I alternate doing each distance on the base time minus :05 as I work through each broken 500. The 1st time through the 200 is on 2:35. The 2nd time through the 150 is on 1:55 and the 3rd time through the 100 is on 1:15. The 4th time through I start again with the 200 on 2:35. My goal is to maintain a sustainable pace on the 1:20 based swims and work the minus :05 swims trying to descend the 2nd one from the 1st one.

    I take a about a minute rest and then go right into a set of:

    10x75 2 on 1:05, 2 on 1:00, 2 on :55, 2 on 1:00 and 2 on 1:05
    10x50 2 on :45, 2 on :40, 1 on :35, 2 on :40, 2 on :45

    At least a 100 cool down, but usually a 200.

    4800 yds with a 100 cool down
    4900 yds with a 200 cool down.
  • Totallty avg. set.. and not stating intervals cuz I am getting intimidated w GTswim's intervals.
    600 warm up** mixing it up w s/k/p
    6x50 at pace.. whatever your pace is..
    5x100 on your slow interval..
    k-100 p100( I try to switch up my kicking and try to work on my alternate breathing on the pulling. If you want to pad the yardage do 200's.
    S 5x100 - taking 5 sec off your initial interval
    S/K
    S 5x100 taking ANOTHER 5 sec off
    and so on.
    *****
    I like this because I usually get faster the shorter the interval and I KNOW I can count to five no matter what.
    I like the mixing in of kicking and pulling, it helps refresh things.
    It can be adapted to 3x100 if you are seriously pressed for time and you can jack up the 100's to 10 if you want to drag it out to an "animal set".

    Starting to like pools... @suzieswimcoach www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • @loneswimmer - I like the "red Mist" set you published above, however, the equation written "{200/T400-T200}" can't be right as it gives an incorrect dimensional analysis result for m/s. Did you mean "{200/(T400-T200)}"?

    Just want to be sure I'm not missing something.

    -LBJ

    “Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde

  • Today- 6500-although my math may be a little off.
    w/up 3x 100 SKP x3 =900
    100 IM drill
    here's where I need it written down.. my brain just doesn't "take in aurally"
    4 3x50 kick descend 1-3--
    4x25 drill/hypoxic/drill/hypoxic and the piece de resisitance..
    3x100-- your first go round pick an interval that you can BARELY make (1.35 for me) and repeat this whole thing 3 times. Each time you get to the hundreds.. you ... INCREASE the interval by 5 sec... but you are trying to go faster.
    Some other stuff I forgot...
    then --21x50- done in sets of 3 --- 2x50 stroke.. on a short interval and then 1x50 free on the 60. repeat...!
    Last bit-- 50 pull 2x25 kick HARD.. 100 pull 2x25 kick HARD 150 pull 2x 25kick HARD..200pull 2x25 kick hard. The pulling is supposed to get faster...but by this time I was doing open turns.
    Nice mix.. and pleased as punch w 2.5 hours of SWIMMING


    :) :)

    Starting to like pools... @suzieswimcoach www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • I did this set the last two Sundays.

    1000 warm-up (500 choice and 500 of a structure set. Today we did 4x125)
    Main Set
    500
    5x100
    400
    5x100
    300
    5x100
    200
    5x100
    100
    5x100

    Pick a base time per 100 that you can comfortably make allowing for about :10 seconds rest. The long swims (500,400,300,200,100) are on the base time.

    The 5x100s are on:
    1st 100 base minus:10
    2nd 100 base plus :10
    3rd 100 base minus :05
    4th 100 base plus :05
    5th 100 base

    I used the base plus :10 and :05 as recovery swims and try to hold the same pace for everything else. Lots of rest to start on the long swims and not much rest by the last 5x100.
  • SylleSylle Gothenburg, SwedenMember
    My current favourite set, super easy to remember, combines stroke and speed work:

    2x200 IM @ 4:00
    6x100 f/c @ 2:00 (trying to hold under 1:20)

    Repeat as many times as you want (I tend to do three these days) and lower the intervals for the 100s each time (i.e. 2:00 - 1:50 - 1:40 or 2:00 - 1:55 - 1:50 - etc. if you want more than 3 or 4k), trying to keep the same speed.
  • swimchica623swimchica623 Member
    edited February 2014
    I really liked this main set the other day:

    3x200s @ 2:30
    200 fly @ 4:00
    1min rest, repeat 4 times for a totaly of 16x200s

    Complete the workout with whatever more completes your practice...my weekday workouts are about 2 hours. I did this a week or two ago so honestly I forget everything but the main set now! Typically would start with a 600 free and 600-800 drill set then some pre-set of 50s or so for another 2000-3000 before the main set.

    Later in the week was 12x200s on 2:40, which is more on my base interval of 1:20...so for this workout you need to go faster than your base interval to the point you feel like you are dying at the end of the 3x200s!
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    I keep expecting to come here and get an average set. But 200 on 2:30? Jeez Louise. ;)
  • Lol, it was HARD. That is why I added the other set (which you could also do but it lacks the originality!). Lots of 200s on 2:40 is my "cruising" set. We actually did a TON of 100s on 1:20 Sunday the day after a 7 mile OW swim and I thought I was going to DIE, not cruise, but typically...yeah.
    2:30 (1:15 pace) could only be maintained for 3x200s. I got less than 3 seconds of rest between and was pretty much going all out for the span of a 600, then a 200 that was hard in its own right, and the entire set was 3200....so it was a good night!
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    I do my 200s (SCM) on 3:30 and am terribly excited when I get :10 rest, which normally only occurs with the first one. After that, it is really just a bunch of 200s with :01-:02 between them. ;)
  • I'm a very average swimmer, so naturally this will be a very average set.

    LC 50m pool

    [warm-up]
    2 x (50 free, 50 breast)
    400 pull
    400 free
    flippers on
    2x50 6/3/6 head to side
    2x50 6/3/6 head down
    2x50 one-arm free (left for 50, right for 50) - breathe to stroking arm
    2x50 one-arm free (left for 50, right for 50) - breathe opposite to stroking arm
    2x50 fists

    [main]
    10x100 free on 2:00 (coming in currently ~ 1:38)
    50 back, 50 breast recovery
    10x 50 free on 1:00 (coming in ~ 0:48)
    50 back, 50 breast recovery
    4 x (400 free (last 2 often pull) on 8:00, coming in ~ 7:00, then 50 back, 50 breast recovery)

    5200m and ~ 2hrs for me.

    Sometimes I'll make the 100's and 50's more "sprint" than "endurance".
    i.e. 100's on 2:30 coming in ~1:30, 50's on 1:30 coming in on ~0:43
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    As winter in the northern hemisphere approaches, and some of us are spending more time in pools, it's time to bump the Average Set Thread.

    Any new average sets to share?
  • wendyv34wendyv34 Vashon, WAMember
    500 warm up (every 4th length back)

    500
    2x400
    3x300
    4x200
    5x100
    I use a base 1:30 interval all the way through (no extra stops!) and try to swim faster as the distances get shorter.

    500-1000 cool down, alternating back/free by 100

    Hmmm...I think I'll do this one today!

    It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.

  • It's boring, but definitely an average set.

    500 warm-up
    475
    450
    425
    400
    .
    .
    .
    25

    We did the distances ending in 00 on base. The 75 ending swims on base + :15, the 50 ending swims on base + :10 and the 25 ending swims on base +:05

    Total distance is 5250, unless you miscount the 475 and do a 525 instead.
  • I do a ton of pool swimming, what with work, cold temps and not living right on the water, so I'll start posting more of my practices, but this is a typical ~5000 scy practice. I'm leaving out interval times since everyone is different and just putting in the effort.

    Warmup
    600 free
    200 pull
    200 kick

    Drill/stroke set
    5x100 IM (fly, back, breast, free or any stroke but freestyle except the last 25), moderate effort
    5x100 free - alternate 25 easy drill, 25 all out sprint
    4x50 stroke - 25 drill, 25 sprint

    Main Set
    800 at pace
    2x400, negative split 800 so the second 400 is faster than the first
    4x200, descend time for each
    4x100, all sprints, ~10-15 seconds rest

    Cool down
    200 - 400, choice
  • Another regular swim I do, which can be made average or animal, depending on how many times you repeat the main set.

    Warm up
    400 free
    2x200 free, pace
    4x50, fast

    Drill set
    3x200 with fins - 50 flutter kick on side, 100 drill, 50 dolphin kick on back with ~5 sec rest between each
    3x200 stroke of choice, 75 swim easy/25 drill/75 fast, 25 drill easy ~10 sec rest between each

    Main Set (repeat as many times as you want. Each one works out to be 2000)
    1x1000, increase speed each 200 to sprint ~10 to 20 sec rest
    1x400 pace ~10 sec rest
    2x200 fast
    4x50, descend speed on each one to all out sprint

    Cool down

    To turn it into an Animal set, I usually make it 4x1000, 4x400, 4x200, 4x50 and then repeat until I am questioning my life choices.
    IronMike
  • gtswimgtswim Member
    Did this yesterday, 6000yds total.

    500 warm-up
    10x100
    9x100
    8x100
    .
    .
    .
    1x100

    On the sets of even repeats take off one slow repeat and start with slow repeat. On the sets of odd repeats take off one fast repeat but start with the fast repeat. The pattern would look like:

    10x100 2 on base +10, 2 on base +5, 2 on base, 2 on base -5, 2 on base -10
    9x100 1 on base -10, 2 on base -5, 2 on base, 2 on base +5, 2 on base +10
    8x100 1 on base +10, 2 on base +5, 2 on base, 2 on base -5, 1 on base -10
    7x100 2 on base -5, 2 on base, 2 on base +5, 1 on base +10
    6x100 2 on base +5, 2 on base, 2 on base -5
    5x100 1 on base -5, 2 on base, 2 on base +5
    4x100 1 on base +5, 2 on base, 1 on base -5
    3x100 2 on base, 1 on base +5
    2x100 2 on base
    1x100 1 on base

    The 100s average out to base when finished. We did the last 3 100s to just make the interval as a warm-down and did an easy 50 after the 6x100 and 4x100.
  • dtatdtat Saskatchewan, CanadaMember

    I don't have access to a pool, so all of my training this summer has to be done in open water (training for a 10K). I was just wondering if anyone has any workouts that are similar in intensity/build of a pool workout, but do-able in open water? I enjoy the framework a pool workout provides, but I have a difficult time translating that to something in the lake (I usually just end up doing a steady swim for distance). Thanks!

  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member

    @dtat, you may find something like this somewhere else, but here's what I did during a wonderful 2-week-long business trip to the east coast of FL:

    I found a spot near my hotel on google maps that was 1km long (between two big, easy-to-spot buildings). Depending upon the day, I would swim a few laps of that 1km. While swimming, I would increase stroke rate for 100 strokes, then decrease it for 100, then increase for 90, decrease for 90, and so on until I'm doing 10-10, then I'd build back up, 10-10; 20-20 up to 100-100. That was a good workout for me. I would generally do that after I did one of the 1km straight-aways, then at the end I'd cool down by finishing whatever 1km I was on.

    As I'm a horrible bilateral breather, I'd throw in some "sets" of bilateral breathing, or even more appropriate for OW, depending upon which direction of that 1km I was doing, I'd breath all left or all right (always breathing to the beach) per 1km.

    I also used the OW to practice skills like flipping over on my back and fixing my goggles without losing too much forward momentum.

    Have fun and count yourself lucky you've got access to OW. No flip-turns!

    mpfmarkdtatNiekflystormsOnceaRunner
  • HollyTHollyT Member

    glad that this thread got bumped. I have something new for tomorrow's early swim. woot!

  • dtatdtat Saskatchewan, CanadaMember

    Thanks so much! I did that set last night, and then this morning I did 100 fast-90 slow-80fast -70 slow… and back up (three times through). I used the tempo trainer for it- and just ignored it for the recoveries. Worked well!

    So I've got a workout for increasing my stroke rate. Any ideas on something to work on DPS? A pool works so well for this, but I'm really struggling to think of something measurable and objective for open water training.

    tortuga
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