Ironman news about swimming changes...

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Comments

  • NiekNiek Member
    edited June 2013
    I recommend training in wetsuit even in a warm pool. Get to know your suit and how to swim in it.
    Don't tell me that the first time you used goggles was at a race meet.
    If you did that than your time was worthless because all you did during the race was thinking of your tight fitting goggles or they were hanging around your neck for the whole race.
    Same goes for a suit. Get to know it.
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • timsroottimsroot Member
    edited June 2013
    @dawntreader - or you start after the pack has Left if you don't want to get in a fight

    Not kicking enough is BS, I barely kick at all. For my 25k, the only times i kicked were trading water to feed, and the last 400 meters or so. But, folks who run a lot do tend to have very poor ankle flexibility, which means that their kick does next to nothing, and maybe even inhibits progress
  • Don't tell me that the first time you used goggles was at a race meet.
    If you did that than your time was worthless because all you did during the race was thinking of your tight fitting goggles or they were hanging around your neck for the whole race.

    What? Now we triathletes are so stupid that we don't even know how to put on goggles?
    gele kaart Niek!!!!!!!
    Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
  • NiekNiek Member
    Don't forget the first sentence: I recommend training in wetsuit even in a warm pool. Get to know your suit and how to swim in it.
    With the goggles is more of a comparison.
    I've read several blogs from (triathlon) openwater swimmers who go swimming ow and then rent a suit because it's obligated or cold or both and start swimming for the first time in a suit. Than they complain at everything but their own stupidity if the swimming doesn't go as expected.
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • malinakamalinaka Seattle, WACharter Member
    edited June 2013
    I read through this thread earlier today and, as expected, took my usual view on the issue. Having nothing to contribute that hadn't already been said, I moved on and thought no more about it. Until, that is, I read Susan Schorn's most recent article on McSweeny's.

    In this piece of her column, she looks at the Boston bombings through a few different personal lenses and the whole things a really good read, but the line that got me thinking was this: "I would be ashamed to be invulnerable...Because whatever compassion we possess springs from our vulnerability."

    Now I say this as someone whose mantra is "nothing about the sea can ever hurt me," and regularly put that to the test (yes, it has been invalidated many times, but I still go with it), as someone who inwardly sneers at those wetsuit weenies wearers, because I Just. Can't. Understand why they'd wear them! Of course I can't...because I'm as close to invulnerable in the water as one could ever hope to be. And many of you are, too.

    Looking at my perceived invulnerability from this angle has finally helped me understand why I always take the same side in the wetsuit discussion. I want to proudly say I sympathize with both sides and it's all completely clear, but this is a big shift in perspective for me and that could take ages to come around to. I feel like I should have pondered this a bit more and shared with you the brainy breakthrough that will happen after reflecting on my vulnerabilities. However, I'd much rather share the spark with you than I would my own results. So, meditate on that while you're marathon swimming.

    That said: 88F in a wetsuit? You gotta be joking!
    I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.
  • bobswimsbobswims Charter Member
    Just a few comments

    1) Racing triathlons is fun and the people are great.
    2) The variety of training different disciplines is easier mentally to train for than marathon swimming is.
    3) I have never done an IM distance race, but I still think I can talk critically about the sport. I was raised a Catholic so I can criticize the Church. Same rule.
    4) If I went to see a triathlon and saw a marathon swimmer on the run leg, I'd probably criticize them.
    5) I think if you can't easily swim the race distance in OW without assistance you have no business entering the race. The same rule applies to the bike. If you can't race the distance without falling off your bike you have no business being in the race.
    6) I always wore a wetsuit for the speed gained. The only time I didn't was because race organizer said it was just under the cutoff temperature. Probably .01° below the no wetsuit cutoff. I missed a top 10 out of the water because everyone else wore one.
    7) I never trained in my wetsuit, probably in part because I rarely train in OW. Just too much travel time (except I just found a place close) and I find training with a clock is a better workout for me. If I lived near the ocean I'd be in all the time, but a lake? It's just a pool without lane lines. :-)
  • This is a long time coming apology to Niek. I'm beginning to notice some weird stuff that I never noticed before. It's not even worth mentioning, but I just want Niek to know that he is right. (generally speaking of course)
    Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    I deal with this often while coaching a tri club. Some look at me funny when I tell them to bring their wetsuit to practice.

    They also balk when I give them the following workout:

    5 x 100:
    1: twice per 50 flip over and do 5 strokes on your back;
    2: twice per 50 flip over and do one-arm back for 3 strokes, (left down, right back);
    3: as above but with your non stroking arm, hold your goggle cup (one-arm stroke with left, then hold the right goggle cup with your right hand, etc);
    4: as above, but this time lift the goggle cup up, tilt your head to drain water;
    5: as per #1 above, or: as #4 above but fill the left cup with water on first 50, fill right cup on second 50.

    You cannot believe the outrage when I recommend they fill one side of their goggles with water to simulate a leaky pair!
  • NiekNiek Member
    edited August 2013

    he suggests wearing your wetsuit during a pool set and doing fast starts with groups to simulate race-day efforts. source: triathlete-europe.competitor.com

    Jolly good, a suggestion.
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • @Niek, as your apposing voice in regards to triathletes, you should know that last Wednesday I think I lost some tri colleagues during a swim training with a tri- team. (I swim with 2 groups because pool traffic is pretty bad here and I am still a triathlete.) Our coach was absent but he left us a program. Half of the team was wearing paddles or fins for the complete training even though there was no mention of equipment on the program. They were racing and swimming like devils for the warm up. After the warm up we had to do 800 x 50 m technique- 50 m IM and you could choose your drills. They all were just doing front crawl for the whole session. I was trying to focus on sculling drills and they were bashing right and left into me. It seemed to me that they were only swimming with the purpose of being competitive and faster than the next guy and that quality and improvement had nothing to do with their training. Finally when they all stopped for a break after their sprinting spree, I caught up with them and told them what I thought of their idiocy and they just looked stupefied when I moved over to the next lane. I will never ever swim with them again. Thought you should know.
    Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
  • NiekNiek Member
    edited February 22
    @Dawn_Treader Good for you. But they can't help themselves. Wearing a wetsuit has blocked the blood flow to their brains with a lot off damage as result. :))
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    Wow, that's a hell of a set, 800x50. ;)

    Seriously, @Dawn_Treader, I feel for you. I've had weird experiences with triathletes in OW swims. So, now I coach them hoping to rub off good technique ("Do as I say, not as I do!") and lane etiquette and respect for open water on them.
  • hahah @IronMike, yes it was just a typo. it was 800 m , every other 50 a technique and the other 50 anything but front crawl, and they did just the opposite. I joined the masters group now, but I am really not good enough to swim with them, but they are happy to have me and you have to start somewhere. Right?
    Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
  • Many of the triathlon books I've read provide abundant advice on the run and the bike and admit cluelessness with regard to the swim. Their advice starts and ends with "it's a mysterious sport, so just join a masters team - they'll know what to do with you."
  • ttriventtriven Member

    Is this not a result of health and safety gone mad in modern society and the organizers being worried about being sued? As well as suit manufacturers money.

    Inthepocket, since you asked, there is a very specific reason for the ruling, last year a triathlete died in SF after diving in the water and going into cardiac arrest. This sparked a movement to put limits on temps. According to the SF Chronicle

    "In all, rescuers pulled about 150 swimmers from the swim portion of the race, more than three times the normal number, Burke said. Water temperatures were about 51 degrees, air temperatures hovered in the mid-50s and 11-mph winds made the air feel closer to the mid-40s. Normally, when the race is held in June, the bay is anywhere from 54 to 60 degrees, and air temperatures can be in the 70s or higher."

    I think it's common knowledge that many triathletes come to the race unprepared for the swim. I don't think 1% of the participants were prepared for a swim that cold, with or without a wetsuit. Legal implications aside, supposed general wimpiness of triathletes aside, that race organizer has to live many more years thinking about that man. There are many different sides to the story, but what resonates with me is that an organizer can feel pressure to go forward - financial pressure, sponsor pressure, athlete pressure - when it might not be best for all involved. These rules take the pressure off, and can possibly save lives.

    I've done a few triathlons but pretty much quit after doing a half IM in about 100 degree weather. I don't normally run to the corner store in 100 degrees, but I showed up for a race, opened the car door, and almost cried at the blistering heat. I was told it would be hot. But not this hot. My age group went last, and I got off the bike at... 12:30pm. I started to run but could only jog/walk the rest of the 13 miles. I had to step over bodies that had passed out (help was on the way I was told). I was passed by women who should never be passing me. They were fast walking, much more efficient than jog/walk I guess. I'm just now realizing that was probably the day I stopped making fun of triathletes. (despite participating I never considered myself one of them, or else I would have been making fun of myself!)
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