Cook Strait Swim rules

evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
edited September 2013 in General Discussion
This discussion was created from comments split from: 110 miles, 53 hours: Questions for Diana Nyad.
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  • edited September 2013
    David, et al?
    The Cook swim, if swimmer boarded the boat for safety, would be classified as an "assisted" swim - or not a "non-assisted" swim since the assistance was beyond the scope of delivering food, water, and navigation?  How would this type of swim (Cook swim) be classified and presented for the record?
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin

    The Cook swim, if swimmer boarded the boat for safety, would be classified as an "assisted" swim - or not a "non-assisted" swim since the assistance was beyond the scope of delivering food, water, and navigation?  How would this type of swim (Cook swim) be classified and presented for the record?

    How Cook swims are classified for Cook swim records is the decision of the Cook swim sanctioning body, i.e., Phil Rush.

    If a Cook swimmer set a speed record that included a shark break, I suppose Phil has the prerogative to recognize it, but I hope he wouldn't.

    If a Cook swimmer did a 4-way crossing and claimed a world distance or time-in-water record, but the swim included a shark break, then I'd say no way, no how, should that swim be considered for an unassisted world record (non-geographically specific).
  • Niek said:

    And that maybe because if they did declare, a swimmer on record pace may refuse to get out not to interrupt swim or be flagged with "onboard assist".
    That swimmer is declared disqualified. The pilot and the observer will immediate stop the race.
    They decide the safety not the swimmer or coach.
    Ahh so are you saying in Cook Straight swim if the swimmer is required to exit water and board the support vessel due to shark presence or sighting, the swim is over and swimmer is not allowed to continue? So a dq due to shark, maybe dnf due to shark? I wonder how many swimmers dq'd/dnf'd due to shark presence in the history of that swim.
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member
    edited September 2013
    @StuartMcDougal What I say is that the swimmer must do what the pilot says.
    The pilot has the final say in matters of security.
    If he says get out of the water because it's not save to continue for whatever reasons than the swimmer must oblige.
    That's counts for every swim in EC Channel, Cook Strait, Catalina Channel, Mims, etc.

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • Niek said:

    @StuartMcDougal What I say is that the swimmer must do what the pilot says.
    The pilot has the final say in matters of security.
    If he says get out of the water because it's not save to continue for whatever reasons than the swimmer must oblige.
    That's counts for every swim in EC Channel, Cook Strait, Catalina Channel, Mims, etc.

    Got it thanks Niek. Do you know if there's a time in the Cook swim (after swimmer has exited water for safety) the pilot/observer may decide it's safe to reenter (i.e. no sharks in sight) and continue the swim; or is the swim over, swimmer dq'd/dnf'd once the swimmer boards the vessel?

  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member
    edited September 2013
    @StuartMcDougal You'll have to ask Phil Rush from Cook Strait Swim http://www.cookstraitswim.org.nz/contacts.htm
    And I don't find numbers on the site for interrupted swims http://www.cookstraitswim.org.nz/history.htm

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • Tracy_ClarkTracy_Clark Norwich, United KingdomMember
    edited April 7

    Niek said: @StuartMcDougal You'll have to ask Phil Rush from Cook Strait Swim http://www.cookstraitswim.org.nz/contacts.htm And I don't find numbers on the site for interrupted swims http://www.cookstraitswim.org.nz/history.htm

    I just Googled something to do with the CS and saw this thread. According to the Cook Strait rules. ..a swimmer is allowed to board the boat for 10 minutes for a shark break
    At the end of 10 minutes a decision has to be made as to whether the swimmer continues or not. If they do get back in the swim is still official. Obviously if they don't, the swim is over. I've always been very confused about this rule...!

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited April 7

    @Tracy_Clark said: According to the Cook Strait rules. ..a swimmer is allowed to board the boat for 10 minutes for a shark break

    I find the notion of "shark breaks" in solo marathon swimming to be .... how to put this diplomatically? Utterly ludicrous.

    The swims we do are hard, in large part, because we can't get on the boat, even if we really want to. Shark breaks are Nyadian nonsense.

    Cold can end swims... jellies can end swims... fatigue can end swims... seasickness can end swims... and sharks can end swims.

    Try again some other day.

    DanSimonellipaulmTracy_ClarkIronMikeNiekKarl_Kingery
  • Tracy_ClarkTracy_Clark Norwich, United KingdomMember
    edited April 7

    I completely agree...it's literally part of the territory of marathon/open water swimming. I would think Molokai is more of a risk encountering such wildlife....

    evmo said: I find the notion of "shark breaks" in solo marathon swimming to be .... how to put this diplomatically? Utterly ludicrous.

    The swims we do are hard, in large part, because we can't get on the boat, even if we really want to. Shark breaks are Nyadian nonsense.

    Cold can end swims... jellies can end swims... fatigue can end swims... seasickness can end swims... and sharks can end swims.

    Try again some other day.

    DanSimonellipaulmIronMikeevmoNiek
  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member

    I also agree

    paulmIronMike
  • HelbeHelbe Senior Member

    I agree with @evmo However, do we go back and take away recognition for swims that had breaks? MIMS allowed lightening breaks. No one had their triple crown rejected for it.

    DanSimonelli
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited April 10

    Helbe said: do we go back and take away recognition for swims that had breaks? MIMS allowed lightening breaks. No one had their triple crown rejected for it.

    No, just like we don't retroactively DQ wool suits and brandy. ;)

    But lightning breaks in MIMS are a bit different... it's a mass-participation race with (in its heydey) 40-50 swimmers, traveling from around the world, all in the water at the same time. Organizers coordinated with various city agencies & support personnel, all for the specific day. DQ'ing the field en masse is not an economically or logistically reasonable option.

    As far as I know, there was only one lightning break actually utilized during a MIMS race, in 2007.

    Also, big difference between a race director calling a lightning break based on objective evidence (lightning / thunder), and a solo swimmer "imagining" a shark deep underneath them because they are tired and want to rest for a few minutes.

    IronMikeDanSimonelli
  • SwimSydneySwimSydney SydneyMember

    evmo said:

    But lightning breaks in MIMS are a bit different... it's a mass-participation race with (in its heydey) 40-50 swimmers, traveling from around the world, all in the water at the same time. Organizers coordinated with various city agencies & support personnel, all for the specific day. DQ'ing the field en masse is not an economically or logistically reasonable option.

    I swam Lake Zurich a few years ago and that too was a mass participation race with people travelling from all over, like MIMS.

    At the briefing, the organisers mentioned lightning at the briefing and said that if the lightning alarms sounded, all swimmers had to exit the water straight away. They said that they understood how much effort everyone had put into training and travelling for the swim so once the sirens had stopped, swimmers were free to get back in the water and finish the swim so that they had the satisfaction of knowing that they'd swum the distance but that there would be no official race results that year. Not sure if that situation has ever happened.

    evmoNiekIronMike
  • MoCoMoCo Worcester, MAMember

    IM LP had a sudden severe thunderstorm roll in a few years ago (we were there volunteering). That swim is in a long, narrow lake with a road that runs pretty much all around it. They directed all of the athletes in the water (a significant portion of the 2000+ athlete field) to swim to the nearest shore, and run around the lake to transition. It was CHAOS. I think they did some sort of adjusting of swim times in order to do overall placement for people who hadn't cleared the water by the time the evacuation was called, but they didn't stop the race.

    The first year I attempted GBCS, I got pulled for a thunderstorm and was a DNF (as were the few people still in the water at that point.) That sucked. I had literally just said to myself that I was far enough along with enough energy left that I was going to be able to finish. (The storm came in behind me, so I had no idea that the weather was changing).

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