@IronMike I was certainly not disappointed with the time but I know that in OW (with all the extra variables as @wendyv34 mentions) that im going to need my pool time sub 1hr 25 if im going to get 1hr 30 in OW. However most 5km swim events have a final cut off time of 2 hours which is why I feared my time may not be the greatest when compared to the average.
@flystorms thanks for the link I will check that out, although I saw a similar product on Amazon where all the reviews said it broke after a few goes
I've got my 2.5k time (that I do each day midweek) to 43 minutes so im slowly making improvements!
I agree that you should be doing the intervals if you want to improve your speed. The thing I find the intervals more useful for though are tough conditions. I don't know where you intend to swim these events but if you are considering an ocean swim or event where you may face opposing currents, it makes all of the interval work seem worthwhile.
When people ask me what the hardest swim I have done is, I often think back to the one-time C3 15.1 mile swim around Cape May, NJ. The first twelve miles we had favorable conditions and it went by in about five hours. The last three miles were brutal as we swam straight into a current that was progressively getting worse and took about three hours to get through. It was then I realized just how important all of the long hours and interval training were. (Commitment and a good coach didn't hurt either)
A few years back I was swimming regularly at a nice pool that couldn't manage to keep a working pace clock. I got tired of it and purchased my own that I would carry in on a daily basis. One double A battery is all you need and it works great if you just set at end of your lane. I carry it in my trunk with a spare battery and never worry anymore.
curly said: @flystorms That's pretty cool. I haven't seen one of those before. Of course the way I space out, I would forget to click it. I use the clock and even then I confuse myself because I'm numerically challenged and I will spend the next 100 yards trying to calculate where I think I am.
This is why I use my garmin in the pool. It counts for me. I do pay attention to pace (on the watch, because I can't see the f'ing pace clock from the water) and count in my head, but on long stuff it's really helpful to have a backup.
Franco said:
A few years back I was swimming regularly at a nice pool that couldn't manage to keep a working pace clock. I got tired of it and purchased my own that I would carry in on a daily basis. One double A battery is all you need and it works great if you just set at end of your lane. I carry it in my trunk with a spare battery and never worry anymore.
So freaking funny. I may buy one for here!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Thanks @Franco - in the face of overwhelming advice to do so on this forum I think intervals is the way to go. It just seems counter intuitive because marathon runners will usually just increase the distance of their runs to improve performance and will rarely do any interval-type training.
Thanks @Franco - in the face of overwhelming advice to do so on this forum I think intervals is the way to go. It just seems counter intuitive because marathon runners will usually just increase the distance of their runs to improve performance and will rarely do any interval-type training.
Under the Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) philosophy. Swimming long and far, will help you swim long and far. Interval training, will help you do it faster ;-)
Sam said: It just seems counter intuitive because marathon runners will usually just increase the distance of their runs to improve performance and will rarely do any interval-type training.
This is simply not an accurate generalization. Runners looking to do a fast marathon are all doing intervals ("speed work") of some sort. It's the same thing with swimming. Are you trying to "just finish," or are you aiming for a fast time?
As others have said, interval training may help more with certain kinds of swims, for example, where there are adverse currents.
@Eric I will be swimming a number of 5k and the odd 10k lake swims next year. I know I could complete a 5k and with perseverance I could complete a 10k....but I want to get a respectable time for each. So my target is sub 1hr 30 minutes for the 5k and 3hrs for the 10km. My pace is currently hovering around those times but I need to improve them for sure because sighting, the cold and wearing a wet suit will pull my time down. With that in mind is the suggested interval training for those distances, i.e. 100s or 500s? Many thanks everyone!
If you're wearing a wetsuit, that will most likely lower your time, depending on how good your body position is without one. There are a couple of guys that I swim against regularly who are significantly faster than me in their wetsuits, (I don't wear one). Every now and then, they will swim without wetsuits, (OW national events), so I have this comparison:
"B" and I swim lots of the same races. This year he beat me by around 7 minutes in a 1.5 mile race under windy conditions. The following week we swam a 1 mile race under windy & rainy conditions and I beat him by 1 minute. I also beat him in 4 of a series of 5 (skin) races mid season by a margin of 1-30 seconds in distances of 1-5K. Most of the time we were in the same group, except for the 5K. In general, we're pretty evenly matched without wetsuits.
Another guy, "C" , who I usually swim against several times a year, will routinely beat me by 5 minutes in a 5K while wearing his wetsuit. Without his wetsuit, I win, usually by 5 minutes or more. He's younger and stronger than I am, but not as skilled a swimmer.
If you swim off course, that will definitely slow you down, so try to practice sighting and swimming in a straight line if you can.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
Sam said:
... With that in mind is the suggested interval training for those distances, i.e. 100s or 500s? Many thanks everyone!
I would recommend a variation of intervals. The speed you swim a 100 will be far faster than the speed you swim a 500. Both distances are great for a set. Also, you can vary your rest time as well as your effort. There is a school of thought that suggests doing the mid distance sets at a lower effort (75%) with short rest times is a valuable training set.
Also, don't forget technique training. I traditionally use the winter time to re-evaluate my stroke and fix the flaws that creep in. I drop my yardage and spend a bunch of time just paddling around trying to get things right again. Right now I am totally re-doing my catch as I have somehow managed to morph into over rotation and as a result I'm only getting 3/4 of a stroke rather than the full stroke. So now that I have corrected the problem I have to rebuild the muscle and muscle memory doing it right.
The end result is that even though I'm not practicing hard or long, my time will actually improve because of efficiency. I had a coach tell me a long time ago that my improvement in efficiency has a far greater impact on my speed than any improvement in my strength. I don't know if he was telling me that because he saw no hope in ever improving my strength or if he actually was correct. But I'm going with that...
"Also, don't forget technique training. I traditionally use the winter time to re-evaluate my stroke and fix the flaws that creep in. "
I'm with Curly on this one. Each winter, my coach and I have worked on different stroke issues, improving efficiency along the way. Each year, my times have definitely gotten faster with the same RPE. I'm able to go longer, faster because of it.
I am wondering if anyone might have some wisdom to offer about working a pretty modest swim goal into an existing endurance sport routine.
I joined a new gym a month ago or so to have access to an indoor running track, and on a lark I decided to swim laps in the pool. I was a pretty avid swimmer in my schools days (a long time ago!) and raced on a team for years. Anyway, I have found swimming complements my running very nicely, and I thought I might try to work up to a 10k this summer with a goal of just finishing. Currently I can swim an hour comfortably, though slowly. I tend to average about 40-45 min a mile. I’m in Chicago, and once the weather warms up a bit, I’ll have the option for doing all my swims in the lake (the Point is very close to where I work/live).
These days, I run 4 times a week, with a long run of between 2-4 hrs on Sunday (not counting race weekends, of course). The other three days vary in length, but I am a believer in the Maffetone method (keep the HR at 180 - age) so intensity is moderate. Theoretically I have three days to swim, but Monday’s I’m usually feeling worn from the long run the day before.
So what should I do with those 2.5 days swimming days? I was thinking one would be a long swim, probably on Wednesday. The other one, maybe some percentage of length of the long that week? And if I feel up to swimming Monday, maybe make it a relaxed technique day in the pool -- drills to isolate kick/stoke etc?
@jkallo - first of all, lucky you to live close to the Point. What a special place to swim.
I'm wondering if some, if not most, of your 2.5 swimming days per week might best be spent working on developing your speed in the pool, especially before the lake warms up. When you say you "raced on a team for years," yet you swim 40-45 min/mile now, that would suggest you may have some untapped speed potential.
Your current pace projects to 4:10-4:40 per 10km, but if you could bring your pace down to, say 30 min/mile (I would think, a realistic goal for a former competitive swimmer), that would take a full hour off your projected 10km time.
It is easier to finish a 10km if it takes 3 hours, compared to one that takes 4 hours, all else being equal.
Just seems like some consistent interval training and technique work might give you more bang for your buck at this point, compared to Long Slow Distance.
Interesting, I hadn't considered using the time now in the pool as essentially a pre-season to doing LSD in the lake. And yeah, to the point of slowness: I have actually been working on swimming that slow! In training for running ultras I came up with my "invincible pace" -- the speed at which I pretty much continue on forever at until the wheels start to fall off. When I swam on teams in HS/college, that was never even a thought -- I rarely swam more than 20 min w/o stopping. So I've been trying to work on the swimming equivalent.
One thing that influence that pace significantly for me is whether I breathe bilaterally or not. When I swam before, I always breathed on one side -- every fourth stroke until I was winded and then every other stroke. I find these days that if I swim for 30+ minutes breathing on one side I end up with a stiff neck etc. Breathing bilaterally helps with that but I swim much slower when I'm breathing on every third stoke as opposed to every other. Breathing every other stroke, I am guessing I'd be in the mid 30s . Maybe I'll try it on my next swim to compare.
I have actually been working on swimming that slow! In training for running ultras I came up with my "invincible pace" -- the speed at which I pretty much continue on forever at until the wheels start to fall off.
Fair enough, but 10km is really more of a "long-ish workout" than an ultra event, and may benefit from developing a slightly higher gear. You won't be swimming all day.
Breathing bilaterally helps with that but I swim much slower when I'm breathing on every third stoke as opposed to every other.
Breathing bilaterally doesn't require breathing every 3rd - you could do a pattern like 2-2-3-2-2-3-2-2-3, or similar, which gets you more oxygen.
Breathing bilaterally doesn't require breathing every 3rd - you could do a pattern like 2-2-3-2-2-3-2-2-3, or similar, which gets you more oxygen.
Wow glad I asked. I tried out that pattern, and after a couple hundred meters getting used to it, I swam a mile in just under 30 min. I was probably going a little faster than an invincible pace, but not much, and I definitely felt like I could have kept it up for another 30 minutes +.
Hello everyone. So last Saturday I completed my first 10K (granted it was in the pool but this was still an achievement given my previous best was 5k in the pool and 2k in OW). I managed 3hr 15 which isn’t awful but definitely in need of improvement. A few things I learnt:
I should have listened to all the advice around feeding. Iso drinks and gels didn’t sit right (with feeds at 5 and 7.5). I’ve now purchased some carb powder so that should alleviate that issue;
My goggles began to ache at 5k onwards. I persevered but it did get quite painful. I’m hoping I can just loosen the strap settings but does anyone have any ‘go to’ goggles that are guaranteed comfort?
Wearing a weighty locker key is really annoying after a time!
I’m not intending on doing another pool 10k but will definitely put it into the OW when the water temp gets to 13 degrees. Would people agree that doing 4 swims involving speed sets/intervals of around 2.5 – 3k and then one swim of 5 – 7.5k would be preferred to keep my 10k time improving? Of course if people think there is a benefit to doing more straight 10ks then I will do them. Open to all advice.
In addition to trying different fuels, try feeding more frequently, like every 2.5K, but take in less volume. Your stomach may be happier with less stuff to deal with at once.
Goggles are such an individual choice that you're going to need to experiment with different models to find something more comfortable for you. My goggles can hurt after 90-120 minutes, so I put them up on my forehead while I'm feeding if they are really bothering me. Definitely loosen them as much as you can without them being so loose that a wave could wash them off.
Would your key be safe attached to your water bottle?
Your training plan sounds pretty good. You don't need to train a full 10K very often but getting in a long swim (7.5K sounds solid) every week or two is very beneficial. I have better results if I can get my weekday swims closer to 4K rather than 3. I'd also recommend that some of your speed/interval sets include longer (more like middle, ~400s) distances or varying distances where you try to maintain speed at the end. I like 1000-800-600-400-200 at a descending pace and try to push the last 200 of each swim.
Good luck
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
Thanks @wendyv34 - invaluable advice! Will try different feeding patterns...
On my week day training I mainly do 2.5 to 3k because I use my lunch break and that's as far as I can manage in the allotted time. Perhaps I could switch one lunch break for a evening swim and dedicate that to a 4k swim. Also thanks for the interval suggestion - is the general consensus that training intervals is much more beneficial than simply swimming distance non stop?
is the general consensus that training intervals is much more beneficial than simply swimming distance non stop?
Most definitely. LSD teaches you to swim long and slow.
Something I do, and it is purely for psychological reasons, is I always sprint the last 200 or so of my cool-down. Sounds silly, but I swear it gets it into my head that at the end of a race I need to kick it up a notch. I've actually surprised myself being able to sprint (definition of which is relative) the last 40 minutes of a 10 mile swim and the last 1500m of a 5k.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
I wish I could do 3:15 for 10k! Still working on that. Won't add to the training suggestions, as I don't have that level of experience, but just a couple smaller notes:
Goggles: I've had success w/ Zoggs and Aquasphere, which stay comfy for a while, but as others said, sometimes it's just a matter of strap adjustment.
Locker key: I pin mine to my towel, which I keep in a bag on deck but not near the water. Even if someone were to take the towel out, I wish them good luck going through all the lockers until they find mine. So far (touch wood), I've not had my locker broken into. Was yours provided by the pool? I know some lockers have coin locks and keys have identifiable numbers. I use a padlock so it's unlikely anyone would find my locker amid a lot of other padlocks.
My husband usually forgets to take his wedding ring off at the pool, so he drops it in his water bottle (we both swim with bike bottles, so there's no risk of losing it while he's drinking). Might be an option for your locker key?
Are the keys provided by the pool? I use a combo lock so I don't have to worry about losing the key (and the one I use lets you set the combo yourself, so there's no risk of me forgetting it!)
Hi all, sorry for slow response but ive been away. @IronMike I’ll try to remember the sprint finish suggestion but my tank is pretty empty anyway due to my distinct lack of fitness. @dpm50 yes ive got a set of Aquaspheres so im hoping a strap adjustment will do the trick. I suppose ince ive found the perfect setting I should probably mark the positions on my straps so I never miss them. And unfortunately at this particular pool the key is one provided by the locker (i.e. I pay £1 and get a key in return). @MoCo unfortunately the key hasd the locker number on it so if someone stole it they could easily get in my locker and find wallet/car keys etc… I’ve seen some pool users strap it around their water bottle but they generally don’t do lengthy swim sessions. I don’t think there is much I can do although ive thought about putting it around my ankle. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
OK, need some input here, especially from those of you who have way more OWS than I do (which is just about all of you). Born and bred pool swimmer here, but falling fast and hard for OWS. Have a 5k and 10k on the schedule for September, and dreaming of much bigger things for 2019/2020.
My question is this- for those of you who live more inland/ or don't have easy access to swimmable ocean areas, how do you train for your big OWS like channel crossings, etc.?? Lakes are great and all, but I know they don't produce the same currents and chop that our oceans can. I know it can be done. I has to be able to be done because if you tell me it's not possible I may go cry in a corner. Give me some hope!
Katie said:
OK, need some input here, especially from those of you who have way more OWS than I do (which is just about all of you). Born and bred pool swimmer here, but falling fast and hard for OWS. Have a 5k and 10k on the schedule for September, and dreaming of much bigger things for 2019/2020.
My question is this- for those of you who live more inland/ or don't have easy access to swimmable ocean areas, how do you train for your big OWS like channel crossings, etc.?? Lakes are great and all, but I know they don't produce the same currents and chop that our oceans can. I know it can be done. I has to be able to be done because if you tell me it's not possible I may go cry in a corner. Give me some hope!
It is only a 1 hour drive for me to swim with a really great group of people in the ocean, so perhaps I don’t fit the demographic you are seeking. That being said, even a very small amount of experience in the ocean is valuable. Perhaps you can find a sea side group and connect with them in some way, and join one of their weekend or evening swims, even if it is only once this season. Salt water is so very different from lakes and rivers and pools. The abundance and diversity of life, the vast size and depth, the incredible power of currents and waves, the buoyancy, the tastes and smells of the salt. Even just one swim in the ocean can give you a sense of the incredible differences between fresh and salt water environments, and help you to plan future adventures. Please stay safe!
Put some intervals into your distance sets, in the middle and at the end, so you get used to changing effort level.
Feeding can be tricky in choppy conditions. Practice feeding in the deep end without hanging onto anything and have some friends use kickboards to direct waves at you.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
@Solo and @wendyv34 , thank you so much for your input! Is it crazy to think I can do a few races and training sessions in the ocean (would be about a 4hr drive, minimum) and take on a channel length swim? Let me be clear here, I'm not ready to do one tomorrow, but if I increase training volume (over time) in the pool and can do long swims in nearby lakes, would 4-5 ocean training/practice race swims be enough?
Hi Katie. I started OWS in 2014 with the plan to do a 4-person English Channel relay for my 60th birthday in 2016. I hadn't really understood how different open water swimming is.
My suggestion that you do whatever OWS you can whether it be lake or sea. I live 3 hours from sea. I spent a lot of time travelling to the coast to practise. I also travelled to a group of swimmers 8 hours' drive away. They were great with sharing their knowledge and expertise. I also found a swimmer here who was also training for the English Channel and joined him on his lake swims. I found the lake swims really valuable because you may not have the chop and bounce of the water but you are also less buoyant. It was also really valuable in acclimatisation to cold water. Also, you can practise night swimming in the lake which is invaluable practise if you are going to do a really long swim where you may have to start or finish in the dark.
You can also do a lot of good practise for OWS in the pool. Incorporate sighting practse, experimenting with feeds and long swims etc.
I also set an interim goal before the English Channel swim and travelled to Turkey to swim across the Hellespont which I did in 2015. Great experience and wonderful holiday. That led me to swim holidays with Strel and other companies. Holidays with similarly obsessed OW swimmers are the best!
So in short, find an open water swim group and swim with them as much as you can. If may also mean having holidays at the seaside as well so you can practise more
@Aquanut, thank you. I think I was starting to get inside my head about whether I could prepare adequately enough without necessarily being able to get into the ocean every single weekend. We do have groups that swim in a nearby lake regularly, I just may need to help them extend the lake swimming season (which in my opinion is too short considering the water is already sweltering here!) and venture into night swimming.
I appreciate the encouraging words and sharing of your experiences.
I can get the pool and lake time in; that part isn't a problem. Now just to work in some weekend getaways to the coast. My kids will be 'devastated' by this news, I am sure.
Aquanut said:
I also set an interim goal before the English Channel swim and travelled to Turkey to swim across the Hellespont which I did in 2015. Great experience and wonderful holiday. That led me to swim holidays with Strel and other companies. Holidays with similarly obsessed OW swimmers are the best!
I read about the Hellespont in "Swim" by Lynn Sherr a few years ago and it's on my swim bucket list. Unfortunately, limited finances are keeping me pretty much in the midwest for swims right now. Maybe one day! A whole swim vacation sounds like it'd be amazing!
I did a lot of pool training since I'm landlocked with few lake options. When I needed some churn, I'd get into a lane next to a kid's practice or water aerobics and the chop from that helped. Occasionally, I could con my master's coach into taking out a lane line so that some of us could practice with the extra waves too.
Hi guys, please could you advice what training to perform in the 10 days before a 27km (~17miles) swim?
A friend advised me to do low bpm swims, under 5km total per training.
I remember during childhood that pre-event (competitive swimming distances).. there were sprints to do.
And 2-3 days before drop 50% the volume.
BogdanZ said:
Hi guys, please could you advice what training to perform in the 10 days before a 27km (~17miles) swim?
A friend advised me to do low bpm swims, under 5km total per training.
I remember during childhood that pre-event (competitive swimming distances).. there were sprints to do.
And 2-3 days before drop 50% the volume.
Hi @BogdanZ I can't give any advice here but whilst searching the forum for something unrelated to your question I came across this thread which looks helpful:
@Sam thank you very much. I think the thread is right to the point. Sorry for the off-topic. I didn't consider searching "tapering". And on this pct I don't see any sprinting but do find that people gradually reduce the effort even down to 25% of weekly distance.
Katie - I live in Wisconsin and have literally only a few months per year to train outdoors. In nine months I was able to prepare for the Swim Around Key West 12.5 mile solo with only three outdoor swims leading up to it. It IS a mental thing. When I first started training, a mentor told me that once you can put in three or four miles, you are physically ready to do ten to twelve, but that it is now mental. I found that to be SO true. Just get in a happy place and GO. I found that a waterproof iPod helps me do that. Lake swims, I found, aren't the same....they are actually harder (at least for me) than ocean swims. If you have a big lake, or a lake with both an inlet and outlet, you WILL have chop and or current to deal with and the water is actually "heavier." The one thing you can't account for is heat and salt. My tongue blistered and peeled for about three days after the Key West race. Not miserable....just is what it is. I was told that mouthwash, or coca cola during the swim could have helped with that. I was also able to find a few gyms that kept their pool temp at around 83 degrees. That was a big help. It's all just problem solving and a lot of mental (as well as physical) preparation. It can be a ton of fun. You'll do great!!
MLamby said:
Katie - I live in Wisconsin and have literally only a few months per year to train outdoors. In nine months I was able to prepare for the Swim Around Key West 12.5 mile solo with only three outdoor swims leading up to it. It IS a mental thing. When I first started training, a mentor told me that once you can put in three or four miles, you are physically ready to do ten to twelve, but that it is now mental. I found that to be SO true. Just get in a happy place and GO. I found that a waterproof iPod helps me do that.
@MLamby, I hope you're not swimming in OW with an iPod?! Besides the aesthetic wonderfulness of hearing your stroke, the birds, etc., it is so dangerous to swim with an iPod with respect to boat traffic.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Hi All, I am doing my first 5.2K race in less then two weeks, It would be 5th August.. I feel I am well prepared for the distance as I was consistently doing 15 to 20 Km a week with 3 to 4 km a sessions and had time to try some long OW swim as well.. (my estimated time would be somewhere between 1h35 to 1h45 for 5.2Km) Now A friend of mine told me about another 7Km race on the 25th of August this time in a Canal (In Belgium, Bruge). I was already looking forward to get some serious rest after this race but this new challenge is sticking in my head and I was wondering I it is actually feasible to attempt it given my previous training.. but Will have less then 20 days of training after the 5K and also limited time as I will have to spend time with my family as well during this vacation days... Given your experience.. Do you think it would be feasible to race the 7K If I could put lets say something as 8 training sessions in the time between the two races?? What is your opinion in regards?? and what is a good approach when you have a race after the other
if you do the 5.2km you easily do the 7km. I did 3km maxim in the ocean and then did a 7.4km. Enjoy the rest and do a few swims in between and you'll be fine
Hi @glenn thanks for the encouragement. One of the aspect I would have to think is maybe nutrition, for 5 K I will just load before the race.. But for 7K I should maybe plan a refill somewhere around 4K.. What would you think about it?
I can't give you a definitive answer on that one as I'm no expert on that. Personally I have to eat and drink more than once on a 7.5km swim. I drank every 30min on the one I did. Going forward I'll load up properly before the next swim and then still drink every 30 min with maybe a gel or food along the way as well
I am new to long distance swimming. I have already set a very concrete goal for myself - complete my first marathon swimming race (>= 10 km) before March 2020. My target race is cold half, solo non-wetsuit (15 km, expected water temperature ~16 - 17 °C, time limit 6 hours) in Hong Kong - not this year, but next year (January or February 2020).
I don't have any swimming or athletic background in my youth, and only started serious swim training last October when I could get to the minimum required level of the triathlon club swim squad (details below) in the university that I am in. My fastest 1500 m time in a long course pool is 31'42", taken 30th November last year with water temperature 21°C, and that pool won't reopen until mid-February.
I work in a university as a research assistant, my current working hours are 9 - 18 Mon - Fri, the other options are 9:30 - 18:30, or 10 - 19. The commute is 40 minutes each way by public transport, and driving is not cost-effective because toll fee is too high, and the time saving is negligible as the university is on a hill with poor road network.
As a university staff, I have free access to two university pools, both are not temperature regulated (can go as low as 15°C or even lower in winter, and as high as 34°C in summer).
The small 25 m pool near the city: opens 07:30 - 20:45 April - October, 07:30 - 18:45 November - mid-February, 35 minutes from home, 15 minutes from work by bus.
The large 50 m pool in rural area: opens 06:30 - 20:45 April - October, 06:30 - 18:45 November - mid-December and mid-February - March, 45 minutes public transport or 30 minutes driving from home, 30 minutes public transport or 20 minutes driving from work.
There are also many paid municipal pools in my city, the opening hours are 06:30 - 12:00; 13:00 - 17:00; 18:00 - 21:30 (Nov - Mar) / 22:00 (Apr - Oct), but they are usually packed, only have 1 or 2 lanes for lap swimming (compared to 3 - 4 in the university pool) and the use of toys (e.g. paddles, pull buoys) are not allowed, and heated to 28°C in the winter (Nov - Mar), therefore they are not my preferred pools.
For OW training possibilities, there are 2 known groups in my city - the Saturday afternoon group normally do 3 km, starting at 14:30, and the Sunday morning group normally do more, about 5 km, starting at 08:30 or 09:00. The place is around 40 minutes from home by public transport (driving is not applicable as the road is always congested at that time). There are also multiple beaches where people are known to swim in them, as I live in a coastal city.
I have joined the triathlon club in the university that I'm working in, and the paid squad training is a swim smooth squad, coached by a former Olympian (swimming and rowing), with the following sessions available:
Monday 07:00 - 08:00: Aerobic technique work - minimum level on 2'20" interval
Tuesday 19:15 (summer) / 19:30 (winter) - 20:30: Short intervals & improver technique session - minimum level on 2'30" interval
Friday 06:30 - 08:00: Long intervals - minimum level on 2'10" interval
The coach is telling me to start with Monday and Tuesday sessions, and now tell me to try Friday session as well, but not for Wednesday session.
The training is held in the university 50 m pool in summer, and in municipal and other pools in winter.
In addition, the club also offers beginner technique course using headsets, and swim smooth video analysis.
My longest prior race is 3.7 km open water race, with completing time about 86 minutes, in early November last year. I have done longer training swims afterwards to see where is my limit, and I felt fatigue set in at around 6 km, burnt out after 8 km continuously using my normal long race speed. At that moment I was generally swimming around 7 - 11 km per week, spreading over about 4 - 5 sessions.
Now I am planning a progressive training plan such that I can finish cold half in 2020, and need advice is the plan is feasible or not. Unlike some professional athletes, swimming is not all of my life. I am competing in orienteering races at an elite level in my country, and I need some time to practice a foreign language as well as my dream is to migrate to Europe and do orienteering, channel swimming, and ice swimming there. (English is only usable in the U.K. or Ireland in Europe)
From now - mid-February when the 50 m university pool is not open, and I train in the 25 m pool which opens 07:30, entering water around 07:45 and leaving the water on 08:30 and prepare for work. I sleep 9 hours per day.
Monday 07:00 - 08:00: squad session: ~ 2.2 km (wake up at 05:20)
Tuesday 07:45 - 08:30: interval work: ~1.9 km (wake up at 05:55)
Tuesday 19:30 - 20:30: squad session: ~2.2 km
Thursday 07:45 - 08:30: interval work: ~1.8 km
Friday 07:45 - 08:30: technique and speed work: ~1.5 km (wake up at 05:55)
Saturday 14:30 - 15:45: OW group swim: ~3 km
Total ~12 - 13 km per week
I normally leave the city for my family after the Saturday group swim, and return on Sunday evening; however, if I am not free on Saturday (most commonly due to orienteering race), I will do the Sunday morning OW group swim instead. In case of holidays, swimming extra is a given.
From mid-February to the end of March, when the 50 m university pool reopens but still on winter schedule:
Monday 07:00 - 08:00: squad session: ~2.2 km (wake up at 05:20)
Tuesday 06:45 - 08:15: interval work: ~3.6 km (wake up at 04:50)
Tuesday 19:30 - 20:30: squad session: ~2.2 km
Thursday 06:45 - 08:15: interval work: ~3.5 km (wake up at 04:50)
Friday 06:45 - 08:15 (not every week): technique and speed work: ~3 km (wake up at 04:50)
Saturday 14:30 - 15:45: OW group swim: ~3 km
Total ~14 - 17 km per week
From April - October, when the pool is on summer schedule:
Monday 07:00 - 08:00: squad session: ~2.2 km
Monday 18:45 - 20:45: interval work: ~4.6 km
Tuesday 19:15 - 20:30: squad session: ~2.8 km
Wednesday 18:45 - 20:45 (not every week): long endurance sets: ~4.6 km
Friday 06:30 - 08:00 (not every week): squad session: ~3.6 km
Friday 18:45 - 20:45: technique and speed work: 4 km
Saturday 14:30 - 15:45: OW group swim: ~3 km
Total ~21 - 25 km per week
In late October, I will change my working hours, from 9 - 18, to 10 - 19 such that I can make more time in morning training when the pool returns to winter schedule in November. Hopefully I can get to the level to join the Wednesday squads (on 2'0" interval) by that time.
From November, when the pool returns to winter schedule but the squad is still at the university:
Monday: 07:00 - 09:15: squad session / technique and speed work: ~4.5 km
Tuesday: 06:45 - 09:15: interval work: ~5.8 km
Wednesday: 06:30 - 09:15: squad session (until 08:00), then pure technique afterwards (that squad session is the hardest session of the week, everyone goes all out!): ~6 km
Thursday: 06:45 - 09:15: interval work: ~5.8 km
Friday (not every week): 06:30 - 09:15: squad session (until 08:00), then pure technique afterwards: ~5.8 km
Saturday 14:30 - 15:45: OW group swim: ~3 km
Total ~25 - 31 km per week
In early December, when the squad moves away from the university:
Monday 06:45 - 09:15: technique and speed work: ~5 km
Tuesday 06:45 - 09:15: interval work: ~5.8 km
Wednesday 06:30 - 08:00: squad session: ~3.8 km
Thursday 06:45 - 09:15: interval work: ~5.8 km
Saturday 14:30 - 15:45: OW group swim: ~3 km
Sunday morning: long swim: ~5 - 7 km
Total ~28 - 30 km per week
From mid-December until tapering, when the 50 m pool closes again:
Monday 07:45 - 09:30: technique and speed work: ~3 km
Tuesday 07:45 - 09:30: interval work: ~4.3 km
Wednesday 06:30 - 08:00: squad session: ~3.8 km
Friday 06:30 - 08:00: squad session: ~3.6 km
Saturday 14:30 - 15:45: OW group swim: ~3 km
Sunday morning: long swim: ~8 - 13 km (practice race day protocol with my support kayaker)
Total: ~25 - 30 km per week
Is this training plan feasible? Is the time for gradual build-up reasonable? Please give advice whether this is a good year plan from my current beginner level to 15 km cold half.
@miklcct said:
I am new to long distance swimming. I have already set a very concrete goal for myself - complete my first marathon swimming race (>= 10 km) before March 2020. My target race is cold half, solo non-wetsuit (15 km, expected water temperature ~16 - 17 °C, time limit 6 hours) in Hong Kong - not this year, but next year (January or February 2020).
Wow- you have a very detailed plan. I think that if you have good swimming skills, and are around strong swimmers and/or coaches who can offer feedback as needed to improve skills and prevent any injuries, you should be fine. You are giving yourself a lot of time, and may find that you are ready to go sooner. 15 km, expected water temperature ~16 - 17 °C, time limit 6 hours sounds good-- I'm not a fast swimmer, and my personal goals shift from trying to gain speed to making sure I can go the distances I like- IF you are able to swim as often as you indicate, great- if you need to shift to land work now and then, you will still maintain cardio conditioning and general fitness, and be ready to transition back to swimming as the opportunity arises. Swim in water like you want to swim in for your event when you can- I'm much happier in open water, and am very focused on my local body of water for most of my short term goals. I'm lucky- once the ice melts around late March or April. . .
Just try to trust yourself, how you feel, and know that what works for other people may or may not work for you. There is a huge amount of information, and a lot of it works in a wide range of situations, but always remember- YOU are the one swimming- you know if you feel strong or steady. Keep an open mind, and keep working toward your goals. You CAN get there. I'm sure of it.
MLamby said:
Katie - I live in Wisconsin and have literally only a few months per year to train outdoors. In nine months I was able to prepare for the Swim Around Key West 12.5 mile solo with only three outdoor swims leading up to it. It IS a mental thing. When I first started training, a mentor told me that once you can put in three or four miles, you are physically ready to do ten to twelve, but that it is now mental. I found that to be SO true. Just get in a happy place and GO. I found that a waterproof iPod helps me do that.
@MLamby, I hope you're not swimming in OW with an iPod?! Besides the aesthetic wonderfulness of hearing your stroke, the birds, etc., it is so dangerous to swim with an iPod with respect to boat traffic.
I have serious ear problems that make ear plugs mandatory for me. I couldn't hear birds if I wanted to. I also never do a substantial outdoor swim without support, so it's not dangerous at all. As far as my stroke and breathing goes, I can still hear it with the music on. It's a sanity thing for me.
@MLamby said:
Holy Cow Miklcct!!! Now THAT'S a detailed plan. I will slink away in embarrassment with my one speed wonder 30K at 2mph per week.
I wing it as I go- but hey, I used to do the one and two mile events in Lake Placid on a full year taper. . . It was the best I could do at the time, but it's not for everyone.
> @MLamby said:
> Holy Cow Miklcct!!! Now THAT'S a detailed plan. I will slink away in embarrassment with my one speed wonder 30K at 2mph per week.
I am still less than 2 mph, therefore I am doing squad sessions, hoping that I can improve, and allow me a year to prepare (the coming local race is this month - too soon for me, then in October - but it will be a warm water race)
@miklcct - there is no way to achieve a big goal without breaking it into smaller pieces and you've done that. Overall it looks strong and well thought out. A couple of comments - is there anyone around who is swimming marathons to mentor you, keep asking around, sometimes we're well hidden. The swim smooth coach (im a fan of their approach) is great for technique but a triathalon is very different than a marathon. Don't increase you're weekly goals by more than 1k each week...that's how you get hurt. Listen to your body - the plan is an outline, how you feel matters more. and any events you can do before the big one? will you need to feed during the event, if so start experimenting with foods to find what fuels you and what you can drink in the open water. how is the event run - do the swimmers have boat/kayak support or is it buoy's? depending on the answer that will be another skill/experience to train for. and after all is said and done - do you love swimming in open water, does it make your heart sing? because this is hard and time consuming and a little crazy so you'll need to be all in. welcome to the group!
Comments
@IronMike I was certainly not disappointed with the time but I know that in OW (with all the extra variables as @wendyv34 mentions) that im going to need my pool time sub 1hr 25 if im going to get 1hr 30 in OW. However most 5km swim events have a final cut off time of 2 hours which is why I feared my time may not be the greatest when compared to the average.
@flystorms thanks for the link I will check that out, although I saw a similar product on Amazon where all the reviews said it broke after a few goes
I've got my 2.5k time (that I do each day midweek) to 43 minutes so im slowly making improvements!
Thanks for all your advice everyone!
I agree that you should be doing the intervals if you want to improve your speed. The thing I find the intervals more useful for though are tough conditions. I don't know where you intend to swim these events but if you are considering an ocean swim or event where you may face opposing currents, it makes all of the interval work seem worthwhile.
When people ask me what the hardest swim I have done is, I often think back to the one-time C3 15.1 mile swim around Cape May, NJ. The first twelve miles we had favorable conditions and it went by in about five hours. The last three miles were brutal as we swam straight into a current that was progressively getting worse and took about three hours to get through. It was then I realized just how important all of the long hours and interval training were. (Commitment and a good coach didn't hurt either)
A few years back I was swimming regularly at a nice pool that couldn't manage to keep a working pace clock. I got tired of it and purchased my own that I would carry in on a daily basis. One double A battery is all you need and it works great if you just set at end of your lane. I carry it in my trunk with a spare battery and never worry anymore.
https://www.swimoutlet.com/p/accusplit-ax850-large-format-lane-timer-pace-clock-8124472/
It is available through Swim Outlet or Amazon so try to use the MSF links if you can.
http://marathonswimmers.org/forum/discussion/1025/
This is why I use my garmin in the pool. It counts for me. I do pay attention to pace (on the watch, because I can't see the f'ing pace clock from the water) and count in my head, but on long stuff it's really helpful to have a backup.
So freaking funny. I may buy one for here!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Thanks @Franco - in the face of overwhelming advice to do so on this forum I think intervals is the way to go. It just seems counter intuitive because marathon runners will usually just increase the distance of their runs to improve performance and will rarely do any interval-type training.
Under the Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) philosophy. Swimming long and far, will help you swim long and far. Interval training, will help you do it faster ;-)
This is simply not an accurate generalization. Runners looking to do a fast marathon are all doing intervals ("speed work") of some sort. It's the same thing with swimming. Are you trying to "just finish," or are you aiming for a fast time?
As others have said, interval training may help more with certain kinds of swims, for example, where there are adverse currents.
@Eric I will be swimming a number of 5k and the odd 10k lake swims next year. I know I could complete a 5k and with perseverance I could complete a 10k....but I want to get a respectable time for each. So my target is sub 1hr 30 minutes for the 5k and 3hrs for the 10km. My pace is currently hovering around those times but I need to improve them for sure because sighting, the cold and wearing a wet suit will pull my time down. With that in mind is the suggested interval training for those distances, i.e. 100s or 500s? Many thanks everyone!
If you're wearing a wetsuit, that will most likely lower your time, depending on how good your body position is without one. There are a couple of guys that I swim against regularly who are significantly faster than me in their wetsuits, (I don't wear one). Every now and then, they will swim without wetsuits, (OW national events), so I have this comparison:
"B" and I swim lots of the same races. This year he beat me by around 7 minutes in a 1.5 mile race under windy conditions. The following week we swam a 1 mile race under windy & rainy conditions and I beat him by 1 minute. I also beat him in 4 of a series of 5 (skin) races mid season by a margin of 1-30 seconds in distances of 1-5K. Most of the time we were in the same group, except for the 5K. In general, we're pretty evenly matched without wetsuits.
Another guy, "C" , who I usually swim against several times a year, will routinely beat me by 5 minutes in a 5K while wearing his wetsuit. Without his wetsuit, I win, usually by 5 minutes or more. He's younger and stronger than I am, but not as skilled a swimmer.
If you swim off course, that will definitely slow you down, so try to practice sighting and swimming in a straight line if you can.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
I would recommend a variation of intervals. The speed you swim a 100 will be far faster than the speed you swim a 500. Both distances are great for a set. Also, you can vary your rest time as well as your effort. There is a school of thought that suggests doing the mid distance sets at a lower effort (75%) with short rest times is a valuable training set.
Also, don't forget technique training. I traditionally use the winter time to re-evaluate my stroke and fix the flaws that creep in. I drop my yardage and spend a bunch of time just paddling around trying to get things right again. Right now I am totally re-doing my catch as I have somehow managed to morph into over rotation and as a result I'm only getting 3/4 of a stroke rather than the full stroke. So now that I have corrected the problem I have to rebuild the muscle and muscle memory doing it right.
The end result is that even though I'm not practicing hard or long, my time will actually improve because of efficiency. I had a coach tell me a long time ago that my improvement in efficiency has a far greater impact on my speed than any improvement in my strength. I don't know if he was telling me that because he saw no hope in ever improving my strength or if he actually was correct. But I'm going with that...
"Also, don't forget technique training. I traditionally use the winter time to re-evaluate my stroke and fix the flaws that creep in. "
I'm with Curly on this one. Each winter, my coach and I have worked on different stroke issues, improving efficiency along the way. Each year, my times have definitely gotten faster with the same RPE. I'm able to go longer, faster because of it.
I am wondering if anyone might have some wisdom to offer about working a pretty modest swim goal into an existing endurance sport routine.
I joined a new gym a month ago or so to have access to an indoor running track, and on a lark I decided to swim laps in the pool. I was a pretty avid swimmer in my schools days (a long time ago!) and raced on a team for years. Anyway, I have found swimming complements my running very nicely, and I thought I might try to work up to a 10k this summer with a goal of just finishing. Currently I can swim an hour comfortably, though slowly. I tend to average about 40-45 min a mile. I’m in Chicago, and once the weather warms up a bit, I’ll have the option for doing all my swims in the lake (the Point is very close to where I work/live).
These days, I run 4 times a week, with a long run of between 2-4 hrs on Sunday (not counting race weekends, of course). The other three days vary in length, but I am a believer in the Maffetone method (keep the HR at 180 - age) so intensity is moderate. Theoretically I have three days to swim, but Monday’s I’m usually feeling worn from the long run the day before.
So what should I do with those 2.5 days swimming days? I was thinking one would be a long swim, probably on Wednesday. The other one, maybe some percentage of length of the long that week? And if I feel up to swimming Monday, maybe make it a relaxed technique day in the pool -- drills to isolate kick/stoke etc?
Thanks for any thoughts you might have!
Joe
@jkallo - first of all, lucky you to live close to the Point. What a special place to swim.
I'm wondering if some, if not most, of your 2.5 swimming days per week might best be spent working on developing your speed in the pool, especially before the lake warms up. When you say you "raced on a team for years," yet you swim 40-45 min/mile now, that would suggest you may have some untapped speed potential.
Your current pace projects to 4:10-4:40 per 10km, but if you could bring your pace down to, say 30 min/mile (I would think, a realistic goal for a former competitive swimmer), that would take a full hour off your projected 10km time.
It is easier to finish a 10km if it takes 3 hours, compared to one that takes 4 hours, all else being equal.
Just seems like some consistent interval training and technique work might give you more bang for your buck at this point, compared to Long Slow Distance.
@evmo -- thanks for your input!
Interesting, I hadn't considered using the time now in the pool as essentially a pre-season to doing LSD in the lake. And yeah, to the point of slowness: I have actually been working on swimming that slow! In training for running ultras I came up with my "invincible pace" -- the speed at which I pretty much continue on forever at until the wheels start to fall off. When I swam on teams in HS/college, that was never even a thought -- I rarely swam more than 20 min w/o stopping. So I've been trying to work on the swimming equivalent.
One thing that influence that pace significantly for me is whether I breathe bilaterally or not. When I swam before, I always breathed on one side -- every fourth stroke until I was winded and then every other stroke. I find these days that if I swim for 30+ minutes breathing on one side I end up with a stiff neck etc. Breathing bilaterally helps with that but I swim much slower when I'm breathing on every third stoke as opposed to every other. Breathing every other stroke, I am guessing I'd be in the mid 30s . Maybe I'll try it on my next swim to compare.
@jkallo - two thoughts.
Fair enough, but 10km is really more of a "long-ish workout" than an ultra event, and may benefit from developing a slightly higher gear. You won't be swimming all day.
Breathing bilaterally doesn't require breathing every 3rd - you could do a pattern like 2-2-3-2-2-3-2-2-3, or similar, which gets you more oxygen.
I don't know why I've never thought about doing it that way. I'll give it try and see how it affects my pace over my hour swim tomorrow.
Wow glad I asked. I tried out that pattern, and after a couple hundred meters getting used to it, I swam a mile in just under 30 min. I was probably going a little faster than an invincible pace, but not much, and I definitely felt like I could have kept it up for another 30 minutes +.
Thanks so much -- that was valuable advice!
Hello everyone. So last Saturday I completed my first 10K (granted it was in the pool but this was still an achievement given my previous best was 5k in the pool and 2k in OW). I managed 3hr 15 which isn’t awful but definitely in need of improvement. A few things I learnt:
I’m not intending on doing another pool 10k but will definitely put it into the OW when the water temp gets to 13 degrees. Would people agree that doing 4 swims involving speed sets/intervals of around 2.5 – 3k and then one swim of 5 – 7.5k would be preferred to keep my 10k time improving? Of course if people think there is a benefit to doing more straight 10ks then I will do them. Open to all advice.
Thanks all
Hi Sam,
In addition to trying different fuels, try feeding more frequently, like every 2.5K, but take in less volume. Your stomach may be happier with less stuff to deal with at once.
Goggles are such an individual choice that you're going to need to experiment with different models to find something more comfortable for you. My goggles can hurt after 90-120 minutes, so I put them up on my forehead while I'm feeding if they are really bothering me. Definitely loosen them as much as you can without them being so loose that a wave could wash them off.
Your training plan sounds pretty good. You don't need to train a full 10K very often but getting in a long swim (7.5K sounds solid) every week or two is very beneficial. I have better results if I can get my weekday swims closer to 4K rather than 3. I'd also recommend that some of your speed/interval sets include longer (more like middle, ~400s) distances or varying distances where you try to maintain speed at the end. I like 1000-800-600-400-200 at a descending pace and try to push the last 200 of each swim.
Good luck
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
Thanks @wendyv34 - invaluable advice! Will try different feeding patterns...
On my week day training I mainly do 2.5 to 3k because I use my lunch break and that's as far as I can manage in the allotted time. Perhaps I could switch one lunch break for a evening swim and dedicate that to a 4k swim. Also thanks for the interval suggestion - is the general consensus that training intervals is much more beneficial than simply swimming distance non stop?
Most definitely. LSD teaches you to swim long and slow.
Something I do, and it is purely for psychological reasons, is I always sprint the last 200 or so of my cool-down. Sounds silly, but I swear it gets it into my head that at the end of a race I need to kick it up a notch. I've actually surprised myself being able to sprint (definition of which is relative) the last 40 minutes of a 10 mile swim and the last 1500m of a 5k.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
I wish I could do 3:15 for 10k! Still working on that. Won't add to the training suggestions, as I don't have that level of experience, but just a couple smaller notes:
Goggles: I've had success w/ Zoggs and Aquasphere, which stay comfy for a while, but as others said, sometimes it's just a matter of strap adjustment.
Locker key: I pin mine to my towel, which I keep in a bag on deck but not near the water. Even if someone were to take the towel out, I wish them good luck going through all the lockers until they find mine. So far (touch wood), I've not had my locker broken into. Was yours provided by the pool? I know some lockers have coin locks and keys have identifiable numbers. I use a padlock so it's unlikely anyone would find my locker amid a lot of other padlocks.
Congrats on your swim!
My husband usually forgets to take his wedding ring off at the pool, so he drops it in his water bottle (we both swim with bike bottles, so there's no risk of losing it while he's drinking). Might be an option for your locker key?
Are the keys provided by the pool? I use a combo lock so I don't have to worry about losing the key (and the one I use lets you set the combo yourself, so there's no risk of me forgetting it!)
Hi all, sorry for slow response but ive been away. @IronMike I’ll try to remember the sprint finish suggestion but my tank is pretty empty anyway due to my distinct lack of fitness. @dpm50 yes ive got a set of Aquaspheres so im hoping a strap adjustment will do the trick. I suppose ince ive found the perfect setting I should probably mark the positions on my straps so I never miss them. And unfortunately at this particular pool the key is one provided by the locker (i.e. I pay £1 and get a key in return). @MoCo unfortunately the key hasd the locker number on it so if someone stole it they could easily get in my locker and find wallet/car keys etc… I’ve seen some pool users strap it around their water bottle but they generally don’t do lengthy swim sessions. I don’t think there is much I can do although ive thought about putting it around my ankle. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
OK, need some input here, especially from those of you who have way more OWS than I do (which is just about all of you). Born and bred pool swimmer here, but falling fast and hard for OWS. Have a 5k and 10k on the schedule for September, and dreaming of much bigger things for 2019/2020.
My question is this- for those of you who live more inland/ or don't have easy access to swimmable ocean areas, how do you train for your big OWS like channel crossings, etc.?? Lakes are great and all, but I know they don't produce the same currents and chop that our oceans can. I know it can be done. I has to be able to be done because if you tell me it's not possible I may go cry in a corner. Give me some hope!
It is only a 1 hour drive for me to swim with a really great group of people in the ocean, so perhaps I don’t fit the demographic you are seeking. That being said, even a very small amount of experience in the ocean is valuable. Perhaps you can find a sea side group and connect with them in some way, and join one of their weekend or evening swims, even if it is only once this season. Salt water is so very different from lakes and rivers and pools. The abundance and diversity of life, the vast size and depth, the incredible power of currents and waves, the buoyancy, the tastes and smells of the salt. Even just one swim in the ocean can give you a sense of the incredible differences between fresh and salt water environments, and help you to plan future adventures. Please stay safe!
Put some intervals into your distance sets, in the middle and at the end, so you get used to changing effort level.
Feeding can be tricky in choppy conditions. Practice feeding in the deep end without hanging onto anything and have some friends use kickboards to direct waves at you.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
@Solo and @wendyv34 , thank you so much for your input! Is it crazy to think I can do a few races and training sessions in the ocean (would be about a 4hr drive, minimum) and take on a channel length swim? Let me be clear here, I'm not ready to do one tomorrow, but if I increase training volume (over time) in the pool and can do long swims in nearby lakes, would 4-5 ocean training/practice race swims be enough?
Hi Katie. I started OWS in 2014 with the plan to do a 4-person English Channel relay for my 60th birthday in 2016. I hadn't really understood how different open water swimming is.
My suggestion that you do whatever OWS you can whether it be lake or sea. I live 3 hours from sea. I spent a lot of time travelling to the coast to practise. I also travelled to a group of swimmers 8 hours' drive away. They were great with sharing their knowledge and expertise. I also found a swimmer here who was also training for the English Channel and joined him on his lake swims. I found the lake swims really valuable because you may not have the chop and bounce of the water but you are also less buoyant. It was also really valuable in acclimatisation to cold water. Also, you can practise night swimming in the lake which is invaluable practise if you are going to do a really long swim where you may have to start or finish in the dark.
You can also do a lot of good practise for OWS in the pool. Incorporate sighting practse, experimenting with feeds and long swims etc.
I also set an interim goal before the English Channel swim and travelled to Turkey to swim across the Hellespont which I did in 2015. Great experience and wonderful holiday. That led me to swim holidays with Strel and other companies. Holidays with similarly obsessed OW swimmers are the best!
So in short, find an open water swim group and swim with them as much as you can. If may also mean having holidays at the seaside as well so you can practise more
Enjoy!
@Aquanut, thank you. I think I was starting to get inside my head about whether I could prepare adequately enough without necessarily being able to get into the ocean every single weekend. We do have groups that swim in a nearby lake regularly, I just may need to help them extend the lake swimming season (which in my opinion is too short considering the water is already sweltering here!) and venture into night swimming.
I appreciate the encouraging words and sharing of your experiences.
I can get the pool and lake time in; that part isn't a problem. Now just to work in some weekend getaways to the coast. My kids will be 'devastated' by this news, I am sure.
Sounds like a plan! Have fun.
I read about the Hellespont in "Swim" by Lynn Sherr a few years ago and it's on my swim bucket list. Unfortunately, limited finances are keeping me pretty much in the midwest for swims right now. Maybe one day! A whole swim vacation sounds like it'd be amazing!
I did a lot of pool training since I'm landlocked with few lake options. When I needed some churn, I'd get into a lane next to a kid's practice or water aerobics and the chop from that helped. Occasionally, I could con my master's coach into taking out a lane line so that some of us could practice with the extra waves too.
Hi guys, please could you advice what training to perform in the 10 days before a 27km (~17miles) swim?
A friend advised me to do low bpm swims, under 5km total per training.
I remember during childhood that pre-event (competitive swimming distances).. there were sprints to do.
And 2-3 days before drop 50% the volume.
Hi @BogdanZ I can't give any advice here but whilst searching the forum for something unrelated to your question I came across this thread which looks helpful:
http://marathonswimmers.org/forum/discussion/comment/280/#Comment_280
@Sam thank you very much. I think the thread is right to the point. Sorry for the off-topic. I didn't consider searching "tapering". And on this pct I don't see any sprinting but do find that people gradually reduce the effort even down to 25% of weekly distance.
Katie - I live in Wisconsin and have literally only a few months per year to train outdoors. In nine months I was able to prepare for the Swim Around Key West 12.5 mile solo with only three outdoor swims leading up to it. It IS a mental thing. When I first started training, a mentor told me that once you can put in three or four miles, you are physically ready to do ten to twelve, but that it is now mental. I found that to be SO true. Just get in a happy place and GO. I found that a waterproof iPod helps me do that. Lake swims, I found, aren't the same....they are actually harder (at least for me) than ocean swims. If you have a big lake, or a lake with both an inlet and outlet, you WILL have chop and or current to deal with and the water is actually "heavier." The one thing you can't account for is heat and salt. My tongue blistered and peeled for about three days after the Key West race. Not miserable....just is what it is. I was told that mouthwash, or coca cola during the swim could have helped with that. I was also able to find a few gyms that kept their pool temp at around 83 degrees. That was a big help. It's all just problem solving and a lot of mental (as well as physical) preparation. It can be a ton of fun. You'll do great!!
@MLamby, I hope you're not swimming in OW with an iPod?! Besides the aesthetic wonderfulness of hearing your stroke, the birds, etc., it is so dangerous to swim with an iPod with respect to boat traffic.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Hi All, I am doing my first 5.2K race in less then two weeks, It would be 5th August.. I feel I am well prepared for the distance as I was consistently doing 15 to 20 Km a week with 3 to 4 km a sessions and had time to try some long OW swim as well.. (my estimated time would be somewhere between 1h35 to 1h45 for 5.2Km) Now A friend of mine told me about another 7Km race on the 25th of August this time in a Canal (In Belgium, Bruge). I was already looking forward to get some serious rest after this race but this new challenge is sticking in my head and I was wondering I it is actually feasible to attempt it given my previous training.. but Will have less then 20 days of training after the 5K and also limited time as I will have to spend time with my family as well during this vacation days... Given your experience.. Do you think it would be feasible to race the 7K If I could put lets say something as 8 training sessions in the time between the two races?? What is your opinion in regards?? and what is a good approach when you have a race after the other
Thanks
if you do the 5.2km you easily do the 7km. I did 3km maxim in the ocean and then did a 7.4km. Enjoy the rest and do a few swims in between and you'll be fine
Hi @glenn thanks for the encouragement. One of the aspect I would have to think is maybe nutrition, for 5 K I will just load before the race.. But for 7K I should maybe plan a refill somewhere around 4K.. What would you think about it?
I can't give you a definitive answer on that one as I'm no expert on that. Personally I have to eat and drink more than once on a 7.5km swim. I drank every 30min on the one I did. Going forward I'll load up properly before the next swim and then still drink every 30 min with maybe a gel or food along the way as well
I am new to long distance swimming. I have already set a very concrete goal for myself - complete my first marathon swimming race (>= 10 km) before March 2020. My target race is cold half, solo non-wetsuit (15 km, expected water temperature ~16 - 17 °C, time limit 6 hours) in Hong Kong - not this year, but next year (January or February 2020).
I don't have any swimming or athletic background in my youth, and only started serious swim training last October when I could get to the minimum required level of the triathlon club swim squad (details below) in the university that I am in. My fastest 1500 m time in a long course pool is 31'42", taken 30th November last year with water temperature 21°C, and that pool won't reopen until mid-February.
I work in a university as a research assistant, my current working hours are 9 - 18 Mon - Fri, the other options are 9:30 - 18:30, or 10 - 19. The commute is 40 minutes each way by public transport, and driving is not cost-effective because toll fee is too high, and the time saving is negligible as the university is on a hill with poor road network.
As a university staff, I have free access to two university pools, both are not temperature regulated (can go as low as 15°C or even lower in winter, and as high as 34°C in summer).
There are also many paid municipal pools in my city, the opening hours are 06:30 - 12:00; 13:00 - 17:00; 18:00 - 21:30 (Nov - Mar) / 22:00 (Apr - Oct), but they are usually packed, only have 1 or 2 lanes for lap swimming (compared to 3 - 4 in the university pool) and the use of toys (e.g. paddles, pull buoys) are not allowed, and heated to 28°C in the winter (Nov - Mar), therefore they are not my preferred pools.
For OW training possibilities, there are 2 known groups in my city - the Saturday afternoon group normally do 3 km, starting at 14:30, and the Sunday morning group normally do more, about 5 km, starting at 08:30 or 09:00. The place is around 40 minutes from home by public transport (driving is not applicable as the road is always congested at that time). There are also multiple beaches where people are known to swim in them, as I live in a coastal city.
I have joined the triathlon club in the university that I'm working in, and the paid squad training is a swim smooth squad, coached by a former Olympian (swimming and rowing), with the following sessions available:
The coach is telling me to start with Monday and Tuesday sessions, and now tell me to try Friday session as well, but not for Wednesday session.
The training is held in the university 50 m pool in summer, and in municipal and other pools in winter.
In addition, the club also offers beginner technique course using headsets, and swim smooth video analysis.
My longest prior race is 3.7 km open water race, with completing time about 86 minutes, in early November last year. I have done longer training swims afterwards to see where is my limit, and I felt fatigue set in at around 6 km, burnt out after 8 km continuously using my normal long race speed. At that moment I was generally swimming around 7 - 11 km per week, spreading over about 4 - 5 sessions.
Now I am planning a progressive training plan such that I can finish cold half in 2020, and need advice is the plan is feasible or not. Unlike some professional athletes, swimming is not all of my life. I am competing in orienteering races at an elite level in my country, and I need some time to practice a foreign language as well as my dream is to migrate to Europe and do orienteering, channel swimming, and ice swimming there. (English is only usable in the U.K. or Ireland in Europe)
From now - mid-February when the 50 m university pool is not open, and I train in the 25 m pool which opens 07:30, entering water around 07:45 and leaving the water on 08:30 and prepare for work. I sleep 9 hours per day.
Total ~12 - 13 km per week
I normally leave the city for my family after the Saturday group swim, and return on Sunday evening; however, if I am not free on Saturday (most commonly due to orienteering race), I will do the Sunday morning OW group swim instead. In case of holidays, swimming extra is a given.
From mid-February to the end of March, when the 50 m university pool reopens but still on winter schedule:
Total ~14 - 17 km per week
From April - October, when the pool is on summer schedule:
Total ~21 - 25 km per week
In late October, I will change my working hours, from 9 - 18, to 10 - 19 such that I can make more time in morning training when the pool returns to winter schedule in November. Hopefully I can get to the level to join the Wednesday squads (on 2'0" interval) by that time.
From November, when the pool returns to winter schedule but the squad is still at the university:
Total ~25 - 31 km per week
In early December, when the squad moves away from the university:
Total ~28 - 30 km per week
From mid-December until tapering, when the 50 m pool closes again:
Total: ~25 - 30 km per week
Is this training plan feasible? Is the time for gradual build-up reasonable? Please give advice whether this is a good year plan from my current beginner level to 15 km cold half.
Wow- you have a very detailed plan.
I think that if you have good swimming skills, and are around strong swimmers and/or coaches who can offer feedback as needed to improve skills and prevent any injuries, you should be fine. You are giving yourself a lot of time, and may find that you are ready to go sooner. 15 km, expected water temperature ~16 - 17 °C, time limit 6 hours sounds good-- I'm not a fast swimmer, and my personal goals shift from trying to gain speed to making sure I can go the distances I like- IF you are able to swim as often as you indicate, great- if you need to shift to land work now and then, you will still maintain cardio conditioning and general fitness, and be ready to transition back to swimming as the opportunity arises. Swim in water like you want to swim in for your event when you can- I'm much happier in open water, and am very focused on my local body of water for most of my short term goals. I'm lucky- once the ice melts around late March or April. . .
Just try to trust yourself, how you feel, and know that what works for other people may or may not work for you. There is a huge amount of information, and a lot of it works in a wide range of situations, but always remember- YOU are the one swimming- you know if you feel strong or steady.
Keep an open mind, and keep working toward your goals. You CAN get there. 
I'm sure of it. 
I have serious ear problems that make ear plugs mandatory for me. I couldn't hear birds if I wanted to.
I also never do a substantial outdoor swim without support, so it's not dangerous at all. As far as my stroke and breathing goes, I can still hear it with the music on. 
It's a sanity thing for me. 
Holy Cow Miklcct!!! Now THAT'S a detailed plan. I will slink away in embarrassment with my one speed wonder 30K at 2mph per week.
I wing it as I go- but hey, I used to do the one and two mile events in Lake Placid on a full year taper. . .
It was the best I could do at the time, but it's not for everyone. 
> Holy Cow Miklcct!!! Now THAT'S a detailed plan. I will slink away in embarrassment with my one speed wonder 30K at 2mph per week.
I am still less than 2 mph, therefore I am doing squad sessions, hoping that I can improve, and allow me a year to prepare (the coming local race is this month - too soon for me, then in October - but it will be a warm water race)
@miklcct - there is no way to achieve a big goal without breaking it into smaller pieces and you've done that. Overall it looks strong and well thought out. A couple of comments - is there anyone around who is swimming marathons to mentor you, keep asking around, sometimes we're well hidden. The swim smooth coach (im a fan of their approach) is great for technique but a triathalon is very different than a marathon. Don't increase you're weekly goals by more than 1k each week...that's how you get hurt. Listen to your body - the plan is an outline, how you feel matters more. and any events you can do before the big one? will you need to feed during the event, if so start experimenting with foods to find what fuels you and what you can drink in the open water. how is the event run - do the swimmers have boat/kayak support or is it buoy's? depending on the answer that will be another skill/experience to train for. and after all is said and done - do you love swimming in open water, does it make your heart sing? because this is hard and time consuming and a little crazy so you'll need to be all in. welcome to the group!