Oldest to complete Triple Crown - How to determine?

evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
edited April 2012 in General Discussion
This question emerged recently over beers & burritos with @VanMou and @AquaRob: How do we determine the oldest person to complete the Triple Crown of Open Water Swimming?

If Joe or Jane Q. Swimmer completes the E.C., C.C., and MIMS at ages X, Y, and Z, is his/her "Triple Crown age":
  • The maximum of {X, Y, Z} ?
  • The minimum of {X, Y, Z} ?
  • The average of {X, Y, Z} ?
Thoughts?
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Comments

  • WaterGirlWaterGirl Charter Member
    I like the minimum of {X, Y, Z}. Maximum is okay too, but I don't like it as well. It seems to reward procrastination.

    I don't like using the average. You shouldn't have to whip out your calculator to find out if you've achieved a record in an adventure sport.
  • The mathematician in me wants to use the sum of the weighted difficulty of each event times the age at which the events were swum to determine this. However, common sense says that the question actually asks for age at completion and that means it's Z. If someone is going to do the English Channel and Catalina at 20 years old and then wait 70 years to do Manhattan just to get the "record", then they have other issues which swimming can't help.

    -LBJ

    “Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde

  • The way I would look at it is the age at completion of the last of the 3 swims (maximum of {X, Y, Z}). We are talking about the oldest person to complete the Triple Crown.
    phodgeszoho
  • I agree with gregoc - the age at the completion of the 3 swims.
  • bobswimsbobswims Charter Member
    My vote is for calculating it in the way that works best for me in my particular situation.
    phodgeszoho
  • mrfinbarrmrfinbarr Charter Member
    What about if the sum of the ages at which the swims were completed similat to age groupings for masters relay teams?

    Otherwise it'd have to be the age at which all three were completed
  • david_barradavid_barra Charter Member
    gregoc said:

    The way I would look at it is the age at completion of the last of the 3 swims (maximum of {X, Y, Z}). We are talking about the oldest person to complete the Triple Crown.

    .... but only if the EC is the last of the 3; otherwise, CC - 5years; MIMS - 10 years.

    unless all 3 completed in 1 season; + 20 yrs (at least!)

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
  • The age at which they were when they completed it. I guess I don't understand the question?

    Starting to like pools... @suzieswimcoach www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited February 20
    suziedods said:

    The age at which they were when they completed it. I guess I don't understand the question?

    I think the point of the question is that there are different ways of measuring the achievement, and each are interesting in their own way.

    Imagine Person A, who completed the three swims at ages 56, 57, and 58.
    Now imagine Person B, who completed the three swims at ages 25, 26, and 59.

    By @suziedods' preferred method of measuring Triple Crown "age," Person B is "older."

    But someone else might reasonably say that Person A was older, given that the average (or median, or minimum) age was much higher.

    Just some food for thought.
  • Aggregate age seems logical to me.
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsMember
    IronMike said:

    I'm with @mrfinbarr. Sum of ages.

    I agree.

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • I agree with what has been said before the oldest person to achieve the Triple Crown would be based on the age of completion of their last of the three swims.

    That said it average age, or aggregate age would be an interesting stat to track. Either of these two ways of measurement would yield the same rankings since the average age is the aggregate age divided by 3. Average age might be more understandable than aggrevate age.
  • malinakamalinaka Seattle, WACharter Member
    If the Youngest Person to complete the 3C is judged by the age at completion, would not it follow that the Oldest Person be judged by the age at start?

    I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.

  • motivate99motivate99 Member
    edited February 21
    http://dailynews.openwaterswimming.com/2015/01/triple-crown-of-open-water-swimming.html?m=1

    Seems to be listed in order of age at completion of all three swims, which makes me 5th oldest...if you list by aggregate age, I'm the third oldest - so I guess I prefer by age at the last swim, 'cause I feel young, again!
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    malinaka said:

    If the Youngest Person to complete the 3C is judged by the age at completion, would not it follow that the Oldest Person be judged by the age at start?

    So if person A swam the three at 28, 30, and 73, s/he would be considered to have completed the three at age 28?
  • I think I will wait at least another 40 years before attempting the EC.
    evmo
  • emkhowleyemkhowley Waltham, MAMember
    edited February 26
    Why not take the age in days of the person at the time of each crossing and add them all together? So for example's sake, (and I'm taking the easy way out here by using the birthdate as the example) let's assume the swimmer in question did the English Channel on his 28th birthday (10,220 days old), Catalina on his 50th birthday (18,250 days old) and MIMS on his 52nd birthday (18,980 days old). You'd end up with a grand total of 47,450 days. Now, if swimmer 2 also did the EC on his 28th birthday and Catalina on his 50th, but MIMS three days AFTER his 52nd birthday, then you'd get 47,453, and swimmer 2 would be the older of the two.

    Stop me if you've heard this one... A grasshopper walks into a bar...

  • malinakamalinaka Seattle, WACharter Member
    @ironmike merely trying to suggest Oldest and Youngest metrics be analogous. It would seem inconsistent to rate one by a single age, and the other by anything other than a single age.

    But so what if it was done by your example. Complete swim 1 and 2 again, and the age jumps to 73.

    On the other side, Youngest may not be a record to be pursued too hard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatots.
    IronMike

    I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.

  • emkhowley said:

    Why not take the age in days of the person at the time of each crossing and add them all together? So for example's sake, (and I'm taking the easy way out here by using the birthdate as the example) let's assume the swimmer in question did the English Channel on his 28th birthday (10,220 days old), Catalina on his 50th birthday (18,250 days old) and MIMS on his 52nd birthday (18,980 days old). You'd end up with a grand total of 47,450 days. Now, if swimmer 2 also did the EC on his 28th birthday and Catalina on his 50th, but MIMS three days AFTER his 52nd birthday, then you'd get 47,453, and swimmer 2 would be the older of the two.

    @emkhowley, are you accounting for Leap Years?
  • I say aggregate age (down to the day), divided by 3, makes sense. Decide quickly. We have someone here in Maryland set to claim this title.
    Franco
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