I recently participated in my 3rd Valley Forge Marathon Swim, now renamed the Charles Bender Memorial Marathon Swim. This is an 8 mile swim, but I made the 8 miles only once, last year.
This year, I got to 6.5 miles. Yet while I wish I'd been able to finish, and I do at times ask myself if I really needed to stop when I did, I did accomplish something w this swim, which begins w about 2.5 miles of downstream swimming before we turn and swim upstream 4 miles, then back w the current.
Of late, the current has been a lot faster than last year, although it mercifully slowed to about 1600 cfs (after highs of close to 3000). What I most dreaded this year was swimming against what we'd had lately, so I was relieved to see the lower number. Still, 4 miles upstream is still a challenge. This year, I was determined to push the pace more so I could reach the downstream stretch at the end sooner. That was pretty much working out all right, and although obviously, I wasn't going to progress at the same rate as with the current, I was making reasonably steady progress.
However, there were a couple points as I got closer to the turn that threw me off a bit.
There's a set of buoys marki a channel intended to keep us off a shallow, rocky stretch. There, simply swimming a little harder than usual wasn't enough. I needed to sprint. But it was a short enough distance that I made it through and could ease off a little (though still pushing my pace some).
The turn-around buoy was preceded by an even faster current. And for some reason I'd forgotten from the previous year that after the channel marking buoys, it was still another quarter mile to the turn. I'd entertained the false hope that it was almost immediately after the channel buoys. I know a quarter mile isn't that much, but psychologically when the kayaker told me it was a quarter mile, I was taken aback. But I settled back in and made the best of it, and eventually the turn buoy came into view. As I got within about 25 yards, though, the current that had been against me but doable turned into what felt like an endless pool current. There was talk of offering me a tow, but I wanted to do it without help if at all possible, as finishing would mean much more that way. Still, it was supremely frustrating. I'd pull even w the buoy after a 50 freestyle effort, start to swim around, and be pushed under the buoy and back 15-20 yards w/out having circled it. On maybe my 4th or so try, I decided to aim for getting past the buoy by a few yards, and finally circled it. But that effort cost me. Even after a breaststroke break and a feed, I was feeling depleted and a little queasy, muscles tight and very sore.
And although the water temp wasn't that cold (just under 70f at the start, maybe low 70s later, I was strating to shiver. That was the first time I felt cold... I'd been fine w the temp until then, despite it being a little cooler than on previous days (I train there, so that helps--I'd been acclimating as the temp went down).
I asked myself how long I'd be able to keep going feeling that way, and decided to pull out.
In hindsight, maybe I could have kept going, but I refuse to regret my choice, just learn from it.
Nutrition was good, feeds 20 minutes apart. Pace was, until the turn, better than the previous year. And I like that I persisted and got around that really hard turn.
Longest swim in training was 7 miles in a pool. That's something I'likely want to change.
State of mind too. I let myself get into too much self doubt: the negative tapes...
"I'm bad at currents... I'm not a real marathon swimmer.... what if I'm way slower than last year when I was pretty slow?"
Afterward, I had decided, "enough!I'm retiring from marathon swimming!"
However, the next day, over breakfast w a friend who swam, I mentioned a 10k swim a few wks away as something that interested me.... then, "shut up, self!" Then, well, next time. .... you see where this is going?
I'm 66, and I hope to swim as long as my body allows. To what extent, if at all, do I need to consider aging in the equation? Is it realistic to keep aiming at swims like this -- and longer? Does a person simply reach a certain limit ability -wise? Frankly, I'm not attracted at all to the "I'm too old for this because I reached a certain no of years" way of thinking, and I need to respond better in my own mind to any comment that begins "at your age" or "when you get older...." etc. People don't always mean any harm, but I'm thinking I'm 66 not 96. Older swimmers, especially women, do share your thoughts on what, if any, accommodations you make re aging.
I'm not at the moment looking at anything as exalted as the EC, but maybe double digit miles.... though I admit the EC is one of those fantasies I occasionally indulge.
There was a time when I thought a mile was pretty long. I've gone well over that quite a few times, although I'm not speedy. (Training SCY, 2:00-2:05/100 is a hard effort.)
Finally, my coach, who was also the race director, told me he thought that was my "best marathon swim," mainly because of getting through those hard currents. I trust him b/c he doesn't praise lightly.
Thanks for any perspectives.
PS @Leonard_Jansen.... saw your name on the start list, but missed you. ... I had an early start due to my (lack of) speed, and once I got swimming, it was hard to see beyond kayaks and cap colors!
My first ever DNF was this year when I got pulled out just 2kms from finishing Rotto bc I didn't make one of the cut off times. I've always pushed on and got to the end of every race, but not this one!
It was my longest to date swim, and I've learnt
1) need to really know what feeds work - I started chucking after 10k bc they weren't working, I think the electrolyte drink upset me.
2) I couldn't eat or drink after the huge chuck which was of course a huge mistake, so
3) I became weak and hypothermic , despite being mentally determined to get to shore.
4) had inexperienced kayakers (who were taking turns with my experienced kayaker), and I had to tell them how I swam, to not talk to me while I was swimming ...! One had never kayaked in the ocean before ....
5) Total Immersion is a godsend!!!
I'm pleased I did Rotto though, or I'd never know what I'm truly capable of - that I can swim more than 20k and for more than 8hours; I need to speed up a tad; and to train more now that I've quit my office job
That sounds pretty tough. I'm surprised that they had inexperienced kayakers on a swim like that. In my small amount of kayak supported swims, I've found that a good kayaker can make all the difference. You have to work so much harder with a kayaker that doesn't know how to work with you. In a short swim, no big deal, but in a long ocean swim, that must be a deal breaker.
I was writing away on the Lake Champlain thread and then remembered that this one had just popped up. Someone asked me what would have caused me to quit during that swim. My answer: Not much. I didn't really get into WHY there isn't much that would cause me to quit- but this thread is the answer to that. :-)
I have two swims that eat at me.
First: Tampa Bay in 2012. It's my only DNF. The race director called the swim when I had about 5 miles to go. There was a storm coming and he was concerned, rightfully, for all of his swimmers and boaters. In my heart, I think I could have finished before the storm hit. But, when you're in a race, you have to respect what the race director decides for the group. Ron absolutely did the right thing in that situation. Race directors have to make tough, sometimes unpopular, decisions in the spur of the moment. It sucks for everyone when that happens, so be nice to your race directors about it. But, the feeling of climbing on to the boat in the middle of a swim is awful. I don't wish to repeat that feeling if I don't have to.
Second: I had planned a swim from San Nicolas Island (out past Catalina) to the mainland in 2014. I didn't even get to leave Colorado. The day before I was supposed to get on a plane, the boat owner called and said they were cancelling my swim due to high winds. We rescheduled for a week later. Exact same thing happened. Other boats were going out, but not mine. I've never been more frustrated or felt more helpless. So, if you want to know why I like lakes and having my own boats- there you have it. And when possible, I like to have a window in which to swim- so if the weather is bad, we can delay a day or two and not forfeit the entire summer of training.
So yeah, I understand that things happen and you have to get out or you can't even start - but if possible, I like to control those variables. There are always reasons NOT to swim, but I don't like most of those reasons.
@curly For the Rotto swim (Rottnest Channel Swim) you have to supply your own boat and kayakers. Too many entrants (solos, duos, teams of 4) for the organisers to provide support craft. In 2017 there were 229 solo finishers, 171 duo finishers, 395 quad finishers. That's at least 795 boats + kayakers, not including DNFs! I believe now that for solos you can have 2 share a boat/kayak but the swimmers MUST stay together.
I DNFed the Potomac River swim about 12 years ago. I hadn't prepared for it properly, which I don't think was too bad, but I have a hard time eating or drinking anything and swimming. My mother had also died a few weeks before. I made it 5-5.5 miles before getting out.
The idea of DNFing a marathon swim (or any endurance sports) is so scary to me - devoting a whole year of your life in training, cutting off all your social life, sacrificing your potential career prospect and/or entrepreneurial plan at the same time, and, for channel swims, tens of thousands of dollars for all those travel and logistics, then only getting these 3 English letters on the result list, would scare s**t out of me. Simply because doing marathon swimming is too costly here - we don't have enough races nearby, even counting places reachable by narrow-bodied short-haul flights.
Although I'm not into marathon swimming yet (hopefully I can do it soon), in the other sport I do, which is orienteering, I have got lots of lots of DNFs when I was a beginner - but well, doing an orienteering race was cheap, I didn't need to train for 6 days a week just to finish it, I didn't need to sacrifice my job, I didn't need to max out my credit cards, and I could race every month, so I just learnt the lesson, and signed up for the next race in the next month. Actually I DNFed half of the forest races I joined in my first 2 years into orienteering, but I still kept doing it afterwards, and improved a lot, much less DNFs than before.
However, the community often cites these DNFs as a reason why we can't attract newcomers into orienteering - in the past there were easier classes for beginners to do, but now the number of participants can't support dividing the main adult class into hard and easy classes, so adult beginners can only do the main adult class which is too hard for beginners, then getting DNFs, then scared away from the sport. Marathon swimming in my region is also the same - we only have a difficult race not suitable for beginners to do, and the swimmers on the registration list are mostly seasoned marathon swimmers around the world, and nearly no locals.
@miklcct Two of the wealthiest guys in the world live in my area. One of them is about my age. One of them is a bit younger. We all went to college although one of them dropped out, so I guess that's a DNF for him. We all pursued our interests and we all run companies. Mine is not quite as world shaking as theirs are. DNF for me. Two of them are billionaires and I, unfortunately am not. I'm not sure if that's a DNF for me because there's still time... Point is that DNFs happen. Who really cares? The whole point is going out and trying to do something. If you succeed, cool. If not. Whatever. The world will not stop spinning.
I think you must set extremely high standards for yourself. But maybe you make yourself crazy. I don't know.
I would not trade my DNFs for anything. Well, that's not totally true. I would have loved to complete all of them. But the learning from each DNF is immense. More than that, there's more to each of these swims than just the swim. Sometimes you DNF but get your nutrition on point, or your crewing was amazing, or all your family from all points of the compass all come to NYC for a family reunion surrounding your swim and you get to see them for the first time in 5+ years.
Point is, DNFs happen. Learn from them and move on.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
@miklcct none of these big swims is easy. That's what makes them irresistible. However much you pay and however well you prepare, it's still you versus unpredictable nature. You have to be prepared to accept that if this is something you want to do. Some people train for years and then a Force 6 blows up in the middle of their swim. You can't legislate for it. DNFs happen for all sorts of reasons. You can get upset, get mad, accept, take stock and look forward. It's all useful.
You can’t DNF if you keep talking yourself out of even doing it to begin with. Go give it a shot, and then we can talk about your finish or a DNF then.
I knew that the time limit for the Hague 10K in 2016 was a risk- I had a solid qualifying swim, was doing fine, and race day was beautiful- BUT. . . A beautiful day made the landscape a distraction. I picked up my pace when another swimmer was near me, but then lost focus- and spent far too much of one loop of the course thinking very dark thoughts. Mental prep counts. I got hungry. As I finally got into a good groove on the second half of lap three, I wasn't sure I'd make the cut off to do lap four- I told myself if I had a minute to spare, I'd raid the cookie raft for a snack, then power through the last lap. . . I didn't feel I had the time to spare as I rounded the buoy, so I headed to the fourth lap and a guy in a kayak said I missed the cut off and had to leave the course. I could tell he felt bad, and I was absolutely NOT going to argue- THAT is bad form. But I was devastated. I absolutely knew I could finish, but not fast enough. I had been careless, and it cost me.
That DNF motivated me to do two things- train to finish the next year, and also train to swim as far as I could with no time constraints- Some speed, some endurance, and mental prep. And the following August, I swam the length of Lake George, and two weeks after that, DID the 10K. I went 58 seconds over the limit, but they still recorded it, and I got to the finish line.
It was interesting to accomplish that 10K in that venue, because Hague was where my solo swim got really hard- a squall, and exhaustion, and ten more hours to go. I felt a lot better for the 10K! And it was SO good to swim there and feel strong-- and on lap three of THAT 10K, I knew that if I missed the cut off, I could live with it, because I had stayed focused and given it my very best shot. . .
I was just thinking about the title of this thread and I remembered those decals that said "NO FEAR" Remember those? Anyway, I always thought they were kind of dumb because I figured if you had never experienced fear, then you probably hadn't really pushed yourself or done anything slightly interesting.
Well that made me think about a DNF. It seems to me that if you've never experienced a DNF, then you probably have never truly tested your limits. Maybe doing a swim that you can't complete is part of building up to a major accomplishment.
I'm now embarrassed to say I've never experienced a DNF.
Perhaps this is the way we should look at DNFs. You should be proud to be able to say you attempted something that was so hard, you couldn't do it.
And remember that it's merely a step toward accomplishment.
@ssthomas said:
Someone asked me what would have caused me to quit during that swim. My answer: Not much. I didn't really get into WHY there isn't much that would cause me to quit- but this thread is the answer to that. :-)
That was probably me before heading to ISOM. I put out the call to many trying to figure out how to stay in the water as long as I could. I really wish could recreate that day and understand how I found the strength I did to finish after so many DNFs.
Right now, I’m back trying to ask myself to be transparent about all my DNFs. When the voices told me to touch the boat, I want to understand why I listened. I figure if I can be better prepared with an answer, one I’ve practiced, this time I’ll choose a different path to follow. While I’ve learned from my DNFs, my brain has also learned it’s a way out to safety and warmth. I’ve reinforced a pattern of accepting my failure.
So heading into my next few swims, i’m doing a lot of mental reconditioning. It’s taking as much time as my time in the pool. But after seeing Batches Lake Powell Swim, I am amazed at what the mind will do under duress, how far it can be pushed and how it pushes back. The only way his mind could get him to stop swimming was to tell him he was done.
Not only speed.to finish succesfully swim like EC all is important! If condition is perfect will appear some diferent and new!
Just u ready for some 10k to data!
Sey something wll go in pool next week? Will feel good? Wll be happy with swim for just 15min? If ansers are yes u are swimmer! If are not whot chanel do .nevermine u are not swimmer! Just be more inpressive u CV ( for others maybe) waste time.emotion and money!
All that is my opinion!
Be health and happy just to swim.if u cant go for something diferent!
Really sorry for EC .but have so many great ow swims! Befor few days i do Mius ( one of the best for me) go for swim some like that!
If i can.i will swim avery day ( 5min.10min or 3h and feel good and happy) always ! So many years im happy and pleasure! I have some friend good swimmer .they swim only for great swim with no fun.no joy nothing! I dont understent that! WHY?
Ok i stop.sorry for chanel again but all is ok !
Dont worry be smart!
All the best to all
This past Saturday (September 11), I swam in the Alligator Lighthouse OWS. I’d like to say I finished, but only made it 5.4 miles - so a big DNF. This was also my first big open water swim, ever.... It was brutal. Conditions at the start were good until about 2 miles in. Then the waves picked up to 4-5 feet and winds increased, causing 7 of the 14 siting buoys to break away from their moorings and blow off course. The last 1 ½ miles to the lighthouse took as long as the first 2 ½ miles. I felt like I was swimming in a washing machine and got several jellyfish stings. I know the waves were that high because my kayak support showed a 13-foot elevation change on his Garmin.
After I rounded the lighthouse and went another 200 meters, I knew there was no way I could safely swim back to shore. My support kayaker agreed it was time to call it. I know I gave it my all. There’s just no controlling the ocean and the weather. I’m still pretty raw, and sore from the beating I took in the waves. Of 460+ swimmers (teams and solo), over a third didn’t finish the race (according to the finish results). So I know it was rough out there. I'm not making excuses, and admire those that finished.
There are some high points. I honored my Naval Academy classmate, Pat Dunn, who was killed on September 11 at the Pentagon. His name on my swim cap and kayak flag. It was my genuine privilege to remember him.
I read an earlier post on this thread that if you've never DNF, you haven't truly tested yourself. I believe that.
Lessons learned:
1. I'm a slow swimmer. Had I been faster, maybe I could have rounded the lighthouse and headed back before the seas and wind picked up. Speed work is as important as distance. Although I'm not sure I'm talented enough to get fast enough.
2. It's ok to make the decision to call it. Open water is no joke. I saw people throwing up, dizzy, and multiple swimmers were taken away in an ambulance. Safety first.
3. DNF's hurt. It's taken me 4 days to process, stop second guessing, and write this post. and it's still raw.
4. The realization that I'm not in the same league as most open water swimmers. I likely need to rethink the swims I decide to enter.
I’m down, but not out. My next swim is in November, a 5k supporting the Navy Seal Foundation. Hoping this one is a success.
@akswim
Congratulations on swimming 5.4 miles in super tough conditions and for being smart enough to call it when it became unsafe!! There is no valor in pushing to the point of an ambulance but much to be commended for doing your best and knowing what you want to work on for your next swim. Also speed is not everything. As a slow swimmer I’ve still accomplished a lot. And marathon swimming also requires a strong mental game and a strong stomach which many a fast swimmer does not possess. So be proud of an amazing day on the water, you did well!!!
So I had a recent DNF. I was trying to swim from Oxnard, CA to Anacapa Island, around it and back to Oxnard. I guess the water was in the low 60s. I had swum a different swim in the area that took 9.5 hours with similar temperatures a month and a half before, and had not so much as a teeth chatter and felt great the whole time. But for whatever reason, on the Anacapa swim, I felt cold right away, got teeth chatters around hour 3 and got full body shivering in the water (never happened before) around hour 5 or so. I swam another two hours, touched Anacapa and got out. I guess there was an ongoing discussion about whether or not I should get pulled, due to the full body shivers, but they did let me finish at Anacapa first. I was still totally able to have conversations up until the end, so I wasn't in the super danger zone yet. It took most of the entire day to re-warm (also something that’s never happened).
I truly wanted to do the whole route I had planned. I didn’t even want to get out when I got to Anacapa, but I didn’t see how I could continue given what was going on with my body. I spent the last 40 minutes of the swim crying into my goggles because I was devastated I wasn’t going to be continuing. One of my observers joked with me that I "looked like a sad mime" with all the desitin on my face and my super sad frown. It really sucked! I had had giardia just three weeks before and was still healing from that. I also had some other stuff going on that surfaced over the next few days that I don’t even want to talk about that resulted in nasty abdominal pain and vomiting during the swim. Basically, my body was in no shape to be cruising around in the ocean. I’m super proud I finished what I did. We only have so much control over our bodies. I had done so much mental and physical training for this swim and I really felt that it paid off in terms of getting through the 7 hours. I love swimming. The fact I could love it even when it was hurting me so much means a lot to me. It was beautiful and awful all at once.
What did I learn? This is the hardest thing for me these days. I don’t know if there was anything I could’ve done that would’ve changed how my body reacted that day. There are a few things here and there that I will do differently next time with respect to pacing and working together with the kayaker (who was not my usual kayaker). Of course, I will continue to train longer in colder water, especially in the ocean. I’ve already improved so much and I hope that will continue.
Still, I learned a ton after the swim. The way I initially responded to the “failure” was incredibly revealing about shortcomings in my mindset about myself, my approach to failure and struggle etc. I delved in and have been truly enjoying all of the insightful stuff I have been gaining from this experience. It’s crossed my mind that if I had felt better and swum longer, it would’ve been exciting and amazing, but I don’t think I would’ve learned what I am learning now. Sometimes failure is a better teacher than success.
Lake can i ask u something?
Im again on Dolce vita mode and will rest to the end 2021y!
But i have one ow dream from many years and if all is ok on our crazy world and with me i think do that swim!
The problem is i swim only in 25m pool with 28c temp!!!
That swim be on 12-14C and maybe 3h continued!
Sey me u opinion is realistic with no cold water training to do that and to be happy after?)))
All the best
@LakeBagger love reading your posts. Honest, insightful and refreshing.
I had a DNF this summer. I wanted to swim Jersey-France-Jersey. I booked to do it in 2019 but only had a very short, bouncy window the day before my tide. I swam one way in 9:42, a very slow 22.5k.
I re-booked for this summer, set off in lovely conditions and started to enjoy it. After 3 hours the sky went black and a squall came through, with winds of 21kts. The sea whipped up and didn't calm down. After 7 hours, I told my pilot I was just going to land one way, so he altered course slightly and I landed that one in 9:34. Obviously, I'm not capable of swimming any faster. Consistent but slow.
I was so disappointed because I'd trained my socks off, but I also hated the last 6 hours of the swim. I couldn't find anything about it to enjoy. I cried over my laptop when a friend had lovely weather and did the 2 way a couple of weeks later, but was so happy for him......tracking him also made me think hard.
If it's taught me one thing it's that I'm not fast enough to complete that swim as a 2 way, as my pilot told me recently he was concerned about the Ecrehous Reef if I'd decided to make the turn.
I've accepted that there are some swims I just can't do as a slower swimmer. I have to be content with two one way swims.
I'm taking a break now because of how miserable I was on that swim. If there's nothing I'm really itching to do, I'm not booking anything until there is. I have a couple of local swims in mind, but I want to enjoy them. I'm never going to set the world alight with my speed and ability, so it has to be fun.
@KatieBun I'm so sorry to hear about your rough swim. I do really appreciate your ability to focus on what's meaningful to you -- having FUN -- while at the same time wanting to challenge yourself AND encouraging others.
I think one of the things that's so attractive about OWS is that unlike more formal "pool meets" there really are never the same two swims the same, even if launching/landing at the same geographic spot. So, it's very much the archetypal "man vs nature" conflict that I was supposed to have learned about in my HS English/literature course. It's about the personal.... the growth.... the goal setting and the accomplishment........... but also the ability to take something in a growth mindset from even the most "icky" of experiences.
Insane chafing on your thighs from toooo many flip turns? Evidence that you're in a tight ball on those turns.
Insane itching from nasty, disgusting hydrilla infiltrating your swimsuit? Evidence that you CAN be pretty miserable for a whole hour and still finish a training swim.
Kayakers get lost and end up extending a planned training swim by 30% w/out notice? Evidence that that extra bottle of "just in case fuel" was a good idea, and that you can swim farther than you thought at that point in the training cycle.
Being a personal feed trough for the local wildlife due to intense vomiting over 15 hrs? Evidence that you are more stubborn, persistent, and have a better "tank" of reserve than you realized.
Don't get to land on the beach the way you were hoping during an historic 4-way swim? Evidence that you have guts and made the right choice for a support crew who got you through it.
PLUS, for everyone of those reports that "you" 're willing to make to the public, you give others the ability to learn vicariously about grit, resilience, and in some cases, creative preventative planning.
@Sara_Wolf Thanks, Sara. I'm not sorry I did it; just happy to have made the discovery that I need to enjoy my swims. I didn't like toughing it out.....I greatly admire and respect those who do that repeatedly.
@akswim said:
I read an earlier post on this thread that if you've never DNF, you haven't truly tested yourself. I believe that.
Lessons learned:
1. I'm a slow swimmer. Had I been faster, maybe I could have rounded the lighthouse and headed back before the seas and wind picked up. Speed work is as important as distance. Although I'm not sure I'm talented enough to get fast enough.
2. It's ok to make the decision to call it. Open water is no joke. I saw people throwing up, dizzy, and multiple swimmers were taken away in an ambulance. Safety first.
3. DNF's hurt. It's taken me 4 days to process, stop second guessing, and write this post. and it's still raw.
4. The realization that I'm not in the same league as most open water swimmers. I likely need to rethink the swims I decide to enter.
I’m down, but not out. My next swim is in November, a 5k supporting the Navy Seal Foundation. Hoping this one is a success.
Swim on...
My view on DNF is not the same. For me, DNF is synonymous with failure and, depending on the success rate of the swim, a DNF may mean that I am a weak swimmer if the swim involved has a high success rate. A successful swimmer should have plenty of swims and few DNFs on his/her swim history.
My Channel DNF will likely to be a permanent scar on me as my marathon swimming CV is no longer perfect, and it happened just 2 years into my history of marathon swimming after 4 swims only, and I will need multiple Channel successes to balance the failure to bring my success rate more than the average, such that I can call myself a strong swimmer by then.
Apart from the speed issue I mentioned, I have also learnt that I should never allow any imperfection of training to occur before starting my challenge, i.e. I must have done all my training and preparation perfectly before I get to the start line without any omission, disregarding anyone who completed the challenge with less preparation, and only start the swim when the forecast is perfect (rather than marginal).
About your point no. 4, I really can't accept that I don't have the ability to do some swims where others can do, as I choose swims mainly based on the geographic location and national identity rather than the kind of challenge it poses. As I currently live in England a natural choice for me to do is to swim the English Channel, as it's the gateway to the world.
I've accepted that there are some swims I just can't do as a slower swimmer. I have to be content with two one way swims.
This is something which I can never accept on myself. In particular, Gibraltar Strait is one of my bucket list swims which specifically requires certain speed.
I'm never going to set the world alight with my speed and ability, so it has to be fun.
My main goal in marathon swimming is to exactly do the former. I am constantly thinking what kinds of national records I can achieve while I plan my swims.
@Sara_Wolf said:
So, it's very much the archetypal "man vs nature" conflict that I was supposed to have learned about in my HS English/literature course. It's about the personal.... the growth.... the goal setting and the accomplishment........... but also the ability to take something in a growth mindset from even the most "icky" of experiences.
@KatieBun said: @Sara_Wolf Thanks, Sara. I'm not sorry I did it; just happy to have made the discovery that I need to enjoy my swims. I didn't like toughing it out.....I greatly admire and respect those who do that repeatedly.
For me, I really don't want to place myself in a "man vs nature" conflict, and my enjoyment in marathon swimming comes from racing my competitors only.
@KatieBun said: @LakeBagger love reading your posts. Honest, insightful and refreshing.
@KatieBun thanks I feel the same about your posts, for the same reasons.
I re-booked for this summer, set off in lovely conditions and started to enjoy it. After 3 hours the sky went black and a squall came through, with winds of 21kts. The sea whipped up and didn't calm down.
21kts! Wowee, that’s incredible! I’ve never been in water like that.
I'm taking a break now because of how miserable I was on that swim. If there's nothing I'm really itching to do, I'm not booking anything until there is. I have a couple of local swims in mind, but I want to enjoy them. I'm never going to set the world alight with my speed and ability, so it has to be fun.
Life is short as it is, makes sense to me to whole heartedly pursue what you truly value in swimming and other areas of life.
You could always come to California and do a swim in the Santa Barbara channel some day. I bit of a long trip, but there isn’t a qualifier swim, and there are lots of dolphins!
@Openh2o said:
Lake can i ask u something?
Im again on Dolce vita mode and will rest to the end 2021y!
But i have one ow dream from many years and if all is ok on our crazy world and with me i think do that swim!
The problem is i swim only in 25m pool with 28c temp!!!
That swim be on 12-14C and maybe 3h continued!
Sey me u opinion is realistic with no cold water training to do that and to be happy after?)))
All the best
Well, everyone is different, I know some people have done stuff like that without having a cold place to train. Knowing you from your posts, you always seem to have an enjoyable time with all your swims. The great thing about that attitude is you don’t risk a whole lot by trying— you can just go and see what happens and have a great time either way. Even if you didn’t finish, you might have a really cool experience and certainly would learn a lot.
Apart from the speed issue I mentioned, I have also learnt that I should never allow any imperfection of training to occur before starting my challenge, i.e. I must have done all my training and preparation perfectly before I get to the start line without any omission, disregarding anyone who completed the challenge with less preparation, and only start the swim when the forecast is perfect (rather than marginal).
Well, good luck with that. My forecast for this summer's JFJ was excellent, but something unexpected happened. A forecast is no guarantee.
As for not allowing any imperfection in your training, that's no guarantee, either.
It's a pity your DNF hasn't taught you anything positive about yourself. Instead, you sound bitter and angry about it, which is a shame.
@Openh2o said:
"I am constantly thinking what kinds of national records I can achieve while I plan *
Is that true?!?
@j9swim said: @miklcct curious how many years do you expect it to take to break a national record?
I signed up my Channel slot this year with an aim to become the first Hongkonger to swim it, however my friend got a second hand slot afterwards and swam it before me.
Apart from the speed issue I mentioned, I have also learnt that I should never allow any imperfection of training to occur before starting my challenge, i.e. I must have done all my training and preparation perfectly before I get to the start line without any omission, disregarding anyone who completed the challenge with less preparation, and only start the swim when the forecast is perfect (rather than marginal).
Well, good luck with that. My forecast for this summer's JFJ was excellent, but something unexpected happened. A forecast is no guarantee.
As for not allowing any imperfection in your training, that's no guarantee, either.
It's a pity your DNF hasn't taught you anything positive about yourself. Instead, you sound bitter and angry about it, which is a shame.
I need to have a plan for everything I do and can't cope with anything unexpected (this is my neurological condition). The DNF has already proved to be that if I can't do things as expected it will become a disaster.
The DNF has taught me many things about the effect of my training process though, and I can certainly take the experience into account in my further challenges, but never anything positive.
It's true that I still feel bitter and angry about it, but why is it a shame? For me the DNF itself is already a shame and those people (high level competitive swimmers and triathletes) are laughing at me because they don't think I can get across based on the training times I published.
@Openh2o said:
"I am constantly thinking what kinds of national records I can achieve while I plan *
Is that true?!?
@j9swim said: @miklcct curious how many years do you expect it to take to break a national record?
I signed up my Channel slot this year with an aim to become the first Hongkonger to swim it, however my friend got a second hand slot afterwards and swam it before me.
Apart from the speed issue I mentioned, I have also learnt that I should never allow any imperfection of training to occur before starting my challenge, i.e. I must have done all my training and preparation perfectly before I get to the start line without any omission, disregarding anyone who completed the challenge with less preparation, and only start the swim when the forecast is perfect (rather than marginal).
Well, good luck with that. My forecast for this summer's JFJ was excellent, but something unexpected happened. A forecast is no guarantee.
As for not allowing any imperfection in your training, that's no guarantee, either.
It's a pity your DNF hasn't taught you anything positive about yourself. Instead, you sound bitter and angry about it, which is a shame.
I need to have a plan for everything I do and can't cope with anything unexpected (this is my neurological condition). The DNF has already proved to be that if I can't do things as expected it will become a disaster.
The DNF has taught me many things about the effect of my training process though, and I can certainly take the experience into account in my further challenges, but never anything positive.
It's true that I still feel bitter and angry about it, but why is it a shame? For me the DNF itself is already a shame and those people (high level competitive swimmers and triathletes) are laughing at me because they don't think I can get across based on the training times I published.
I'm aware that you need to have everything well planned, Michael, but this isn't the sport where that will work. There aren't the same guarantees that there may be with activities less dependent on so many variables. I'm afraid you may be perpetually doomed to disappointment if you think your meticulous planning will mitigate that.
After I posted my DNF story above, someone reached out privately to thank me for posting. “If someone like you sometimes doesn’t make it, I don’t feel as bad if I don’t”, they said.
I understand and have felt that way before too when hearing of the struggles of people I respect. I’m flattered someone would respect me enough to have that reaction. On the other hand, “people like me”... It sort of implies that if you are a certain level in swimming, it's assumed you are somehow immune or past the point of struggle, failure and growth—and people are surprised, relieved or validated when those with skill clearly still struggle.
I think everyone, not just "people like me" or "people like you", everyone of any level in anything struggles sometimes and even if someone hasn't yet had a DNF in swimming, everyone has had the experience of falling short of something they aimed for at some point in their lives.
Some swimmers do extraordinary preparation for their events. They prepare for the worst conditions they could experience both from their environment and from their own bodies and minds. They can finish when maybe others wouldn't, but it's never guaranteed. It takes many years to build the speed, cold tolerance, mental fortitude and endurance to persevere in the variety of conditions one might deal with the day of the event. The people who have these skills were not immune to the failures along the way. And I'm assuming they continue to fall short all the time, learning something from every training swim gone wrong, listening to their bodies over the years and years of experience leading up to the eventual jaw dropping performance. And even after that... still not immune to failure.
A DNF doesn't mean there is something inadequate about you, like you don't have what it takes. It could reveal something inadequate about your preparation, but no one swim can define you.
This concept of an unblemished record without any failures (of any kind)--somehow achieving greatness unscathed by overwhelming challenges is not only an illusion, it has the potential to derail people from their joy, taking risks, pushing for their very best and most important: learning from disappointing experiences.
As for people laughing, or shaming people for not being able to do something, they can laugh all they want. I'll be over here enjoying my swims, preparing well, improving my capacities and falling on my face as I move forward.
This concept of an unblemished record without any failures (of any kind)--somehow achieving greatness unscathed by overwhelming challenges is not only an illusion, it has the potential to derail people from their joy, taking risks, pushing for their very best and most important: learning from disappointing experiences.
If you haven't failed at something, you haven't tried hard enough. There aren't too many sports where there is a category of DNF. One sport that comes to mind is Formula 1 racing. It is the pinnacle of motorsports where only the elite drivers can compete.
One of the greatest drivers in the history of the sport, Michael Schumacher, drove for Ferrari in the late '90s and early 2000s. He absolutely dominated the sport while he was active. He was an unprecedented seven times World Champion. There were years where he won virtually every race he was in. He raced in 306 Grand Prix. Of those races he won 91 of them which works out to 29.7% win percentage. Pretty amazing for anyone in any sport.
It should also be noted that he DNF'd 67 times for a failure percentage of 21.9%. With a failure rate such as this, I'd expect he and the team had many learning opportunities and they certainly took advantage of them.
I think the topic of this thread is really valuable. Considering this site is devoted to increasing knowledge and helping us all achieve our goals, learning from other's DNF's is a great way to learn a lot without having to do all the varieties of failures yourself. So let's all get out there and keep failing!
A recent and perhaps somewhat ridiculous tale of woe: I happily registered to do the 1-mile Stinson Beach Sharkfest and arrived at the venue full of gumption. The gumption proceeded to completely evaporate at the start line, when I realized that the waves were so high that the buoys could not be seen from the shore.
I started the swim with everyone else. Then, the immense waves started pummeling me into the shore. I fought them for about five minutes and wiped out every time. Then, I heard a voice within my soul: You have a four-year-old at home. Not today.
Got out of the water, told the lifeguards, in my best Aragorn impersonation, "IT IS NOT THIS DAY!!!", got in the car and drove back home to my family.
What I learned from this is that I'm unwilling to do foolish things, which is all to the good.
I finished Swim the Suck in Oct. 2021, so of course, the next step was to do a ten-miler without the current assist. Baby steps--no distance increase, just increase in level of difficulty for the same distance.
Enter the Kingdom ten-mile swim. Exit DPM50 at around 6 miles. Chop, wind, currents going this way and that.
I started out okay, not fast, but then again this was a ten-mile swim, and I thought it best to not blow the whole wad of energy in the first several miles. All was going ... (excuse the expression) swimmingly until we crossed the lake. Then the wave machine kicked in. But then it paused as we passed an island that more or less sheltered us ... and then back into the chop again.
I kept going, felt okay physically, but was (without telling my kayaker) vowing to retire from marathon swimming. We eventually reached a point where she said that I was caught in a place where I wasn't making progress. Cops in a nearby police boat agreed and advised the two of us to come aboard and take the ride to shore.
I was still feeling okay at that point, despite my frustration at not making more progress, and I think would have kept swimming, but I had an experienced kayaker whose judgment I respected. She knew the lake better than I did, and who knows how I would have felt if I'd kept battling. She told me I probably did closer to about 8-9 miles, but as my watch battery died at around 5.5, I'll take her word for it. (Last year, I had pretty choppy conditions in the Great South Bay Swim, which, although listed at about 5.5 miles showed up on my gps as 6.1. These conditions were rougher, so I can believe I likely went further than 6.
The takeaway? Learning to handle choppy conditions is my next goal, and, no, I don't think I'll be retiring from marathon swimming (self, don't listen to promises made under duress).
So one question for the experts: if you don't live near choppy bodies of water, what are some strategies for improving your ability to handle chop? The Schuylkill, where I normally swim is fairly calm most of the time, and even when there's chop, it's NOTHING like Lake Memphremagog.
Trying to decide if my travel budget will allow for another go next year, but if so, I need to be ready to be tossed about like a ping pong ball for a while and learn to like it.
Really, I keep wondering how long I can pursue this marathon swimming and whether I have it in me to do something that involves a SPOT tracker and a longer-than-ten-mile distance. I'm 71, and those with common sense might tell me I should back off. But overall, I'm healthy so why not keep going as long as I can? Why not set more ambitious goals? When I first attempted the Bender Swim (then Valley Forge Marathon Swim), I got to 7 miles and had to bail. But since then, I've finished twice, most recently in 2020 (we had a flood in the Schuylkill last year so I didn't get to do the 8 then). I'm entered this year, but have a tweaky right arm lately, so we'll see. Just I don't want the Kingdom ten mile to be my last hurrah.
If you're still loving it and still able to do it, go for it! Age is just a label. You're doing something fabulous. Huge congratulations on doing Swim The Suck! Best of luck to you for your next swim.
Yeah! You rock and your mental and physical fortitude are admirable. We can all learn something from how you approach swimming: loving it and learning something every time.
I know a lot of the wind is just getting used to it, which sounds like it might be a challenge since the water is not choppy where you live. Something I’ve noticed is that the fact I have a steady kick when swimming seems to provide me with a lot of stability when the wind picks up. I know kicking isn’t popular among marathon swimmers— and for good reason (those big leg muscles take up lots of energy). But maybe it’s worth experimenting with improving your kick to see if it helps you in the wind or not.
I also try to focus on finding a place to anchor my hand under water, which is hard when the water is moving in many directions at once, but I focus on that more than what my arms are doing above the water, and it seems to help.
Maybe even getting to the race lake a few days early and going out in the afternoon (at the end of the lake opposite where the wind is coming from) for a short swim to get used to the chop might be good.
@LakeBagger , I appreciate your suggestions about anchoring the arm and also about kicking. Kick sets are my least favorite in masters practices, ha! But maybe time to see them as opportunities to improve my rough-water skills.
I feel very fortunate to be able to swim the distances I do. I also love the way this forum raises the bar and I learn of women my age who are accomplishing things I can only dream of--Pat Charette with so many marathon swims, including the Triple Crown, Linda Ashmore, who set the record for oldest person to swim the English Channel. I don't know what I might be able to achieve, but why set limits? One step/one stroke at a time.
When I was running, I'd go into a race pretty much knowing what to expect based on my training. DNFs were rare, usually the result of injuries. Otherwise, my finish would be more or less what I expected, with variations depending on conditions (heat, heavy rain, lots of hills, etc.) although at that, there weren't many huge surprises. I knew too I could walk if needed and still make whatever cut-offs there were. But swimming? Hahaha! The saying about not stepping in the same river (or other body of water) twice very much applied there.
That was frustrating at first, but then exciting as I progressed in my swimming. DNF didn't feel like a defeat, only a learning experience.
Short and to the point. Crew is everything. The crew or at least one person on the crew needs to know you--especially when under physical and emotional stress so they know how you will react when under stress/cold/ feeling sorry for yourself or if you are in real trouble to pull you. Been there done that and learned a lot about myself and what I need for a successful swim. Not a pleasant experience but great takeaways on lessons learned. Keeps one humble.
@dpm50 Amazing doing what you do at 71! I'd love to be there in 25 years.
So one question for the experts: if you don't live near choppy bodies of water, what are some strategies for improving your ability to handle chop? The Schuylkill, where I normally swim is fairly calm most of the time, and even when there's chop, it's NOTHING like Lake Memphremagog.
Serious advice: swimming in public lanes when most of the pool is taken by teenagers/age groups training. Ideally when they are doing kick sets, fly, or sprints. Use the line right beside the ones they are using.
@bruno said: @dpm50 Amazing doing what you do at 71! I'd love to be there in 25 years.
Serious advice: swimming in public lanes when most of the pool is taken by teenagers/age groups training. Ideally when they are doing kick sets, fly, or sprints. Use the line right beside the ones they are using.
Thanks for the suggestion! That sometimes happens by chance. Only I've sometimes wished I had earplugs to deal with the noise level!
Can be helpful too if I'm sharing a lane w several swimmers in a master's practice if we have an IM set.
Comments
I recently participated in my 3rd Valley Forge Marathon Swim, now renamed the Charles Bender Memorial Marathon Swim. This is an 8 mile swim, but I made the 8 miles only once, last year.
This year, I got to 6.5 miles. Yet while I wish I'd been able to finish, and I do at times ask myself if I really needed to stop when I did, I did accomplish something w this swim, which begins w about 2.5 miles of downstream swimming before we turn and swim upstream 4 miles, then back w the current.
Of late, the current has been a lot faster than last year, although it mercifully slowed to about 1600 cfs (after highs of close to 3000). What I most dreaded this year was swimming against what we'd had lately, so I was relieved to see the lower number. Still, 4 miles upstream is still a challenge. This year, I was determined to push the pace more so I could reach the downstream stretch at the end sooner. That was pretty much working out all right, and although obviously, I wasn't going to progress at the same rate as with the current, I was making reasonably steady progress.
However, there were a couple points as I got closer to the turn that threw me off a bit.
There's a set of buoys marki a channel intended to keep us off a shallow, rocky stretch. There, simply swimming a little harder than usual wasn't enough. I needed to sprint. But it was a short enough distance that I made it through and could ease off a little (though still pushing my pace some).
The turn-around buoy was preceded by an even faster current. And for some reason I'd forgotten from the previous year that after the channel marking buoys, it was still another quarter mile to the turn. I'd entertained the false hope that it was almost immediately after the channel buoys. I know a quarter mile isn't that much, but psychologically when the kayaker told me it was a quarter mile, I was taken aback. But I settled back in and made the best of it, and eventually the turn buoy came into view. As I got within about 25 yards, though, the current that had been against me but doable turned into what felt like an endless pool current. There was talk of offering me a tow, but I wanted to do it without help if at all possible, as finishing would mean much more that way. Still, it was supremely frustrating. I'd pull even w the buoy after a 50 freestyle effort, start to swim around, and be pushed under the buoy and back 15-20 yards w/out having circled it. On maybe my 4th or so try, I decided to aim for getting past the buoy by a few yards, and finally circled it. But that effort cost me. Even after a breaststroke break and a feed, I was feeling depleted and a little queasy, muscles tight and very sore.
And although the water temp wasn't that cold (just under 70f at the start, maybe low 70s later, I was strating to shiver. That was the first time I felt cold... I'd been fine w the temp until then, despite it being a little cooler than on previous days (I train there, so that helps--I'd been acclimating as the temp went down).
I asked myself how long I'd be able to keep going feeling that way, and decided to pull out.
In hindsight, maybe I could have kept going, but I refuse to regret my choice, just learn from it.
Nutrition was good, feeds 20 minutes apart. Pace was, until the turn, better than the previous year. And I like that I persisted and got around that really hard turn.
Longest swim in training was 7 miles in a pool. That's something I'likely want to change.
State of mind too. I let myself get into too much self doubt: the negative tapes...
"I'm bad at currents... I'm not a real marathon swimmer.... what if I'm way slower than last year when I was pretty slow?"
Afterward, I had decided, "enough!I'm retiring from marathon swimming!"
However, the next day, over breakfast w a friend who swam, I mentioned a 10k swim a few wks away as something that interested me.... then, "shut up, self!" Then, well, next time. .... you see where this is going?
I'm 66, and I hope to swim as long as my body allows. To what extent, if at all, do I need to consider aging in the equation? Is it realistic to keep aiming at swims like this -- and longer? Does a person simply reach a certain limit ability -wise? Frankly, I'm not attracted at all to the "I'm too old for this because I reached a certain no of years" way of thinking, and I need to respond better in my own mind to any comment that begins "at your age" or "when you get older...." etc. People don't always mean any harm, but I'm thinking I'm 66 not 96. Older swimmers, especially women, do share your thoughts on what, if any, accommodations you make re aging.
I'm not at the moment looking at anything as exalted as the EC, but maybe double digit miles.... though I admit the EC is one of those fantasies I occasionally indulge.
There was a time when I thought a mile was pretty long. I've gone well over that quite a few times, although I'm not speedy. (Training SCY, 2:00-2:05/100 is a hard effort.)
Finally, my coach, who was also the race director, told me he thought that was my "best marathon swim," mainly because of getting through those hard currents. I trust him b/c he doesn't praise lightly.
Thanks for any perspectives.
PS @Leonard_Jansen.... saw your name on the start list, but missed you. ... I had an early start due to my (lack of) speed, and once I got swimming, it was hard to see beyond kayaks and cap colors!
My first ever DNF was this year when I got pulled out just 2kms from finishing Rotto bc I didn't make one of the cut off times. I've always pushed on and got to the end of every race, but not this one!
It was my longest to date swim, and I've learnt
1) need to really know what feeds work - I started chucking after 10k bc they weren't working, I think the electrolyte drink upset me.
2) I couldn't eat or drink after the huge chuck which was of course a huge mistake, so
3) I became weak and hypothermic , despite being mentally determined to get to shore.
4) had inexperienced kayakers (who were taking turns with my experienced kayaker), and I had to tell them how I swam, to not talk to me while I was swimming ...! One had never kayaked in the ocean before ....
5) Total Immersion is a godsend!!!
I'm pleased I did Rotto though, or I'd never know what I'm truly capable of - that I can swim more than 20k and for more than 8hours; I need to speed up a tad; and to train more now that I've quit my office job
That sounds pretty tough. I'm surprised that they had inexperienced kayakers on a swim like that. In my small amount of kayak supported swims, I've found that a good kayaker can make all the difference. You have to work so much harder with a kayaker that doesn't know how to work with you. In a short swim, no big deal, but in a long ocean swim, that must be a deal breaker.
I was writing away on the Lake Champlain thread and then remembered that this one had just popped up. Someone asked me what would have caused me to quit during that swim. My answer: Not much. I didn't really get into WHY there isn't much that would cause me to quit- but this thread is the answer to that. :-)
I have two swims that eat at me.
First: Tampa Bay in 2012. It's my only DNF. The race director called the swim when I had about 5 miles to go. There was a storm coming and he was concerned, rightfully, for all of his swimmers and boaters. In my heart, I think I could have finished before the storm hit. But, when you're in a race, you have to respect what the race director decides for the group. Ron absolutely did the right thing in that situation. Race directors have to make tough, sometimes unpopular, decisions in the spur of the moment. It sucks for everyone when that happens, so be nice to your race directors about it. But, the feeling of climbing on to the boat in the middle of a swim is awful. I don't wish to repeat that feeling if I don't have to.
Second: I had planned a swim from San Nicolas Island (out past Catalina) to the mainland in 2014. I didn't even get to leave Colorado. The day before I was supposed to get on a plane, the boat owner called and said they were cancelling my swim due to high winds. We rescheduled for a week later. Exact same thing happened. Other boats were going out, but not mine. I've never been more frustrated or felt more helpless. So, if you want to know why I like lakes and having my own boats- there you have it. And when possible, I like to have a window in which to swim- so if the weather is bad, we can delay a day or two and not forfeit the entire summer of training.
So yeah, I understand that things happen and you have to get out or you can't even start - but if possible, I like to control those variables. There are always reasons NOT to swim, but I don't like most of those reasons.
And that's what I've learned. :-)
@curly For the Rotto swim (Rottnest Channel Swim) you have to supply your own boat and kayakers. Too many entrants (solos, duos, teams of 4) for the organisers to provide support craft. In 2017 there were 229 solo finishers, 171 duo finishers, 395 quad finishers. That's at least 795 boats + kayakers, not including DNFs! I believe now that for solos you can have 2 share a boat/kayak but the swimmers MUST stay together.
gw
I DNFed the Potomac River swim about 12 years ago. I hadn't prepared for it properly, which I don't think was too bad, but I have a hard time eating or drinking anything and swimming. My mother had also died a few weeks before. I made it 5-5.5 miles before getting out.
The idea of DNFing a marathon swim (or any endurance sports) is so scary to me - devoting a whole year of your life in training, cutting off all your social life, sacrificing your potential career prospect and/or entrepreneurial plan at the same time, and, for channel swims, tens of thousands of dollars for all those travel and logistics, then only getting these 3 English letters on the result list, would scare s**t out of me. Simply because doing marathon swimming is too costly here - we don't have enough races nearby, even counting places reachable by narrow-bodied short-haul flights.
Although I'm not into marathon swimming yet (hopefully I can do it soon), in the other sport I do, which is orienteering, I have got lots of lots of DNFs when I was a beginner - but well, doing an orienteering race was cheap, I didn't need to train for 6 days a week just to finish it, I didn't need to sacrifice my job, I didn't need to max out my credit cards, and I could race every month, so I just learnt the lesson, and signed up for the next race in the next month. Actually I DNFed half of the forest races I joined in my first 2 years into orienteering, but I still kept doing it afterwards, and improved a lot, much less DNFs than before.
However, the community often cites these DNFs as a reason why we can't attract newcomers into orienteering - in the past there were easier classes for beginners to do, but now the number of participants can't support dividing the main adult class into hard and easy classes, so adult beginners can only do the main adult class which is too hard for beginners, then getting DNFs, then scared away from the sport. Marathon swimming in my region is also the same - we only have a difficult race not suitable for beginners to do, and the swimmers on the registration list are mostly seasoned marathon swimmers around the world, and nearly no locals.
@miklcct Two of the wealthiest guys in the world live in my area. One of them is about my age. One of them is a bit younger. We all went to college although one of them dropped out, so I guess that's a DNF for him. We all pursued our interests and we all run companies. Mine is not quite as world shaking as theirs are. DNF for me. Two of them are billionaires and I, unfortunately am not. I'm not sure if that's a DNF for me because there's still time...
Point is that DNFs happen. Who really cares? The whole point is going out and trying to do something. If you succeed, cool. If not. Whatever. The world will not stop spinning.
I think you must set extremely high standards for yourself. But maybe you make yourself crazy. I don't know.
I would not trade my DNFs for anything. Well, that's not totally true. I would have loved to complete all of them. But the learning from each DNF is immense. More than that, there's more to each of these swims than just the swim. Sometimes you DNF but get your nutrition on point, or your crewing was amazing, or all your family from all points of the compass all come to NYC for a family reunion surrounding your swim and you get to see them for the first time in 5+ years.
Point is, DNFs happen. Learn from them and move on.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
@miklcct none of these big swims is easy. That's what makes them irresistible. However much you pay and however well you prepare, it's still you versus unpredictable nature. You have to be prepared to accept that if this is something you want to do. Some people train for years and then a Force 6 blows up in the middle of their swim. You can't legislate for it. DNFs happen for all sorts of reasons. You can get upset, get mad, accept, take stock and look forward. It's all useful.
You can’t DNF if you keep talking yourself out of even doing it to begin with. Go give it a shot, and then we can talk about your finish or a DNF then.
I knew that the time limit for the Hague 10K in 2016 was a risk- I had a solid qualifying swim, was doing fine, and race day was beautiful- BUT. . . A beautiful day made the landscape a distraction. I picked up my pace when another swimmer was near me, but then lost focus- and spent far too much of one loop of the course thinking very dark thoughts. Mental prep counts. I got hungry. As I finally got into a good groove on the second half of lap three, I wasn't sure I'd make the cut off to do lap four- I told myself if I had a minute to spare, I'd raid the cookie raft for a snack, then power through the last lap. . . I didn't feel I had the time to spare as I rounded the buoy, so I headed to the fourth lap and a guy in a kayak said I missed the cut off and had to leave the course. I could tell he felt bad, and I was absolutely NOT going to argue- THAT is bad form. But I was devastated. I absolutely knew I could finish, but not fast enough. I had been careless, and it cost me.
That DNF motivated me to do two things- train to finish the next year, and also train to swim as far as I could with no time constraints- Some speed, some endurance, and mental prep. And the following August, I swam the length of Lake George, and two weeks after that, DID the 10K. I went 58 seconds over the limit, but they still recorded it, and I got to the finish line.
It was interesting to accomplish that 10K in that venue, because Hague was where my solo swim got really hard- a squall, and exhaustion, and ten more hours to go. I felt a lot better for the 10K! And it was SO good to swim there and feel strong-- and on lap three of THAT 10K, I knew that if I missed the cut off, I could live with it, because I had stayed focused and given it my very best shot. . .
I was just thinking about the title of this thread and I remembered those decals that said "NO FEAR" Remember those? Anyway, I always thought they were kind of dumb because I figured if you had never experienced fear, then you probably hadn't really pushed yourself or done anything slightly interesting.
Well that made me think about a DNF. It seems to me that if you've never experienced a DNF, then you probably have never truly tested your limits. Maybe doing a swim that you can't complete is part of building up to a major accomplishment.
I'm now embarrassed to say I've never experienced a DNF.
Perhaps this is the way we should look at DNFs. You should be proud to be able to say you attempted something that was so hard, you couldn't do it.
And remember that it's merely a step toward accomplishment.
That was probably me before heading to ISOM. I put out the call to many trying to figure out how to stay in the water as long as I could. I really wish could recreate that day and understand how I found the strength I did to finish after so many DNFs.
Right now, I’m back trying to ask myself to be transparent about all my DNFs. When the voices told me to touch the boat, I want to understand why I listened. I figure if I can be better prepared with an answer, one I’ve practiced, this time I’ll choose a different path to follow. While I’ve learned from my DNFs, my brain has also learned it’s a way out to safety and warmth. I’ve reinforced a pattern of accepting my failure.
So heading into my next few swims, i’m doing a lot of mental reconditioning. It’s taking as much time as my time in the pool. But after seeing Batches Lake Powell Swim, I am amazed at what the mind will do under duress, how far it can be pushed and how it pushes back. The only way his mind could get him to stop swimming was to tell him he was done.
I just DNFed my English Channel swim.
Lesson learnt: speed is very important to actually make the France landing if condition is worse than expected.
Not only speed.to finish succesfully swim like EC all is important! If condition is perfect will appear some diferent and new!
Just u ready for some 10k to data!
Sey something wll go in pool next week? Will feel good? Wll be happy with swim for just 15min? If ansers are yes u are swimmer! If are not whot chanel do .nevermine u are not swimmer! Just be more inpressive u CV ( for others maybe) waste time.emotion and money!
All that is my opinion!
Be health and happy just to swim.if u cant go for something diferent!
Really sorry for EC .but have so many great ow swims! Befor few days i do Mius ( one of the best for me) go for swim some like that!
If i can.i will swim avery day ( 5min.10min or 3h and feel good and happy) always ! So many years im happy and pleasure! I have some friend good swimmer .they swim only for great swim with no fun.no joy nothing! I dont understent that! WHY?
Ok i stop.sorry for chanel again but all is ok !
Dont worry be smart!
All the best to all
This past Saturday (September 11), I swam in the Alligator Lighthouse OWS. I’d like to say I finished, but only made it 5.4 miles - so a big DNF. This was also my first big open water swim, ever.... It was brutal. Conditions at the start were good until about 2 miles in. Then the waves picked up to 4-5 feet and winds increased, causing 7 of the 14 siting buoys to break away from their moorings and blow off course. The last 1 ½ miles to the lighthouse took as long as the first 2 ½ miles. I felt like I was swimming in a washing machine and got several jellyfish stings. I know the waves were that high because my kayak support showed a 13-foot elevation change on his Garmin.
After I rounded the lighthouse and went another 200 meters, I knew there was no way I could safely swim back to shore. My support kayaker agreed it was time to call it. I know I gave it my all. There’s just no controlling the ocean and the weather. I’m still pretty raw, and sore from the beating I took in the waves. Of 460+ swimmers (teams and solo), over a third didn’t finish the race (according to the finish results). So I know it was rough out there. I'm not making excuses, and admire those that finished.
There are some high points. I honored my Naval Academy classmate, Pat Dunn, who was killed on September 11 at the Pentagon. His name on my swim cap and kayak flag. It was my genuine privilege to remember him.
I read an earlier post on this thread that if you've never DNF, you haven't truly tested yourself. I believe that.
Lessons learned:
1. I'm a slow swimmer. Had I been faster, maybe I could have rounded the lighthouse and headed back before the seas and wind picked up. Speed work is as important as distance. Although I'm not sure I'm talented enough to get fast enough.
2. It's ok to make the decision to call it. Open water is no joke. I saw people throwing up, dizzy, and multiple swimmers were taken away in an ambulance. Safety first.
3. DNF's hurt. It's taken me 4 days to process, stop second guessing, and write this post. and it's still raw.
4. The realization that I'm not in the same league as most open water swimmers. I likely need to rethink the swims I decide to enter.
I’m down, but not out. My next swim is in November, a 5k supporting the Navy Seal Foundation. Hoping this one is a success.
Swim on...
@akswim
Congratulations on swimming 5.4 miles in super tough conditions and for being smart enough to call it when it became unsafe!! There is no valor in pushing to the point of an ambulance but much to be commended for doing your best and knowing what you want to work on for your next swim. Also speed is not everything. As a slow swimmer I’ve still accomplished a lot. And marathon swimming also requires a strong mental game and a strong stomach which many a fast swimmer does not possess. So be proud of an amazing day on the water, you did well!!!
So I had a recent DNF. I was trying to swim from Oxnard, CA to Anacapa Island, around it and back to Oxnard. I guess the water was in the low 60s. I had swum a different swim in the area that took 9.5 hours with similar temperatures a month and a half before, and had not so much as a teeth chatter and felt great the whole time. But for whatever reason, on the Anacapa swim, I felt cold right away, got teeth chatters around hour 3 and got full body shivering in the water (never happened before) around hour 5 or so. I swam another two hours, touched Anacapa and got out. I guess there was an ongoing discussion about whether or not I should get pulled, due to the full body shivers, but they did let me finish at Anacapa first. I was still totally able to have conversations up until the end, so I wasn't in the super danger zone yet. It took most of the entire day to re-warm (also something that’s never happened).
I truly wanted to do the whole route I had planned. I didn’t even want to get out when I got to Anacapa, but I didn’t see how I could continue given what was going on with my body. I spent the last 40 minutes of the swim crying into my goggles because I was devastated I wasn’t going to be continuing. One of my observers joked with me that I "looked like a sad mime" with all the desitin on my face and my super sad frown.
It really sucked! I had had giardia just three weeks before and was still healing from that. I also had some other stuff going on that surfaced over the next few days that I don’t even want to talk about that resulted in nasty abdominal pain and vomiting during the swim. Basically, my body was in no shape to be cruising around in the ocean. I’m super proud I finished what I did. We only have so much control over our bodies. I had done so much mental and physical training for this swim and I really felt that it paid off in terms of getting through the 7 hours. I love swimming. The fact I could love it even when it was hurting me so much means a lot to me. It was beautiful and awful all at once.
What did I learn? This is the hardest thing for me these days. I don’t know if there was anything I could’ve done that would’ve changed how my body reacted that day. There are a few things here and there that I will do differently next time with respect to pacing and working together with the kayaker (who was not my usual kayaker). Of course, I will continue to train longer in colder water, especially in the ocean. I’ve already improved so much and I hope that will continue.
Still, I learned a ton after the swim. The way I initially responded to the “failure” was incredibly revealing about shortcomings in my mindset about myself, my approach to failure and struggle etc. I delved in and have been truly enjoying all of the insightful stuff I have been gaining from this experience. It’s crossed my mind that if I had felt better and swum longer, it would’ve been exciting and amazing, but I don’t think I would’ve learned what I am learning now. Sometimes failure is a better teacher than success.
Lake can i ask u something?
Im again on Dolce vita mode and will rest to the end 2021y!
But i have one ow dream from many years and if all is ok on our crazy world and with me i think do that swim!
The problem is i swim only in 25m pool with 28c temp!!!
That swim be on 12-14C and maybe 3h continued!
Sey me u opinion is realistic with no cold water training to do that and to be happy after?)))
All the best
@LakeBagger love reading your posts. Honest, insightful and refreshing.
I had a DNF this summer. I wanted to swim Jersey-France-Jersey. I booked to do it in 2019 but only had a very short, bouncy window the day before my tide. I swam one way in 9:42, a very slow 22.5k.
I re-booked for this summer, set off in lovely conditions and started to enjoy it. After 3 hours the sky went black and a squall came through, with winds of 21kts. The sea whipped up and didn't calm down. After 7 hours, I told my pilot I was just going to land one way, so he altered course slightly and I landed that one in 9:34. Obviously, I'm not capable of swimming any faster. Consistent but slow.
I was so disappointed because I'd trained my socks off, but I also hated the last 6 hours of the swim. I couldn't find anything about it to enjoy. I cried over my laptop when a friend had lovely weather and did the 2 way a couple of weeks later, but was so happy for him......tracking him also made me think hard.
If it's taught me one thing it's that I'm not fast enough to complete that swim as a 2 way, as my pilot told me recently he was concerned about the Ecrehous Reef if I'd decided to make the turn.
I've accepted that there are some swims I just can't do as a slower swimmer. I have to be content with two one way swims.
I'm taking a break now because of how miserable I was on that swim. If there's nothing I'm really itching to do, I'm not booking anything until there is. I have a couple of local swims in mind, but I want to enjoy them. I'm never going to set the world alight with my speed and ability, so it has to be fun.
@KatieBun I'm so sorry to hear about your rough swim. I do really appreciate your ability to focus on what's meaningful to you -- having FUN -- while at the same time wanting to challenge yourself AND encouraging others.
I think one of the things that's so attractive about OWS is that unlike more formal "pool meets" there really are never the same two swims the same, even if launching/landing at the same geographic spot. So, it's very much the archetypal "man vs nature" conflict that I was supposed to have learned about in my HS English/literature course. It's about the personal.... the growth.... the goal setting and the accomplishment........... but also the ability to take something in a growth mindset from even the most "icky" of experiences.
Insane chafing on your thighs from toooo many flip turns? Evidence that you're in a tight ball on those turns.
Insane itching from nasty, disgusting hydrilla infiltrating your swimsuit? Evidence that you CAN be pretty miserable for a whole hour and still finish a training swim.
Kayakers get lost and end up extending a planned training swim by 30% w/out notice? Evidence that that extra bottle of "just in case fuel" was a good idea, and that you can swim farther than you thought at that point in the training cycle.
Being a personal feed trough for the local wildlife due to intense vomiting over 15 hrs? Evidence that you are more stubborn, persistent, and have a better "tank" of reserve than you realized.
Don't get to land on the beach the way you were hoping during an historic 4-way swim? Evidence that you have guts and made the right choice for a support crew who got you through it.
PLUS, for everyone of those reports that "you" 're willing to make to the public, you give others the ability to learn vicariously about grit, resilience, and in some cases, creative preventative planning.
@Sara_Wolf Thanks, Sara. I'm not sorry I did it; just happy to have made the discovery that I need to enjoy my swims. I didn't like toughing it out.....I greatly admire and respect those who do that repeatedly.
My view on DNF is not the same. For me, DNF is synonymous with failure and, depending on the success rate of the swim, a DNF may mean that I am a weak swimmer if the swim involved has a high success rate. A successful swimmer should have plenty of swims and few DNFs on his/her swim history.
My Channel DNF will likely to be a permanent scar on me as my marathon swimming CV is no longer perfect, and it happened just 2 years into my history of marathon swimming after 4 swims only, and I will need multiple Channel successes to balance the failure to bring my success rate more than the average, such that I can call myself a strong swimmer by then.
Apart from the speed issue I mentioned, I have also learnt that I should never allow any imperfection of training to occur before starting my challenge, i.e. I must have done all my training and preparation perfectly before I get to the start line without any omission, disregarding anyone who completed the challenge with less preparation, and only start the swim when the forecast is perfect (rather than marginal).
About your point no. 4, I really can't accept that I don't have the ability to do some swims where others can do, as I choose swims mainly based on the geographic location and national identity rather than the kind of challenge it poses. As I currently live in England a natural choice for me to do is to swim the English Channel, as it's the gateway to the world.
This is something which I can never accept on myself. In particular, Gibraltar Strait is one of my bucket list swims which specifically requires certain speed.
My main goal in marathon swimming is to exactly do the former. I am constantly thinking what kinds of national records I can achieve while I plan my swims.
For me, I really don't want to place myself in a "man vs nature" conflict, and my enjoyment in marathon swimming comes from racing my competitors only.
@miklcct A whole lot of words to basically say that you haven't learned anything...
“…my enjoyment in marathon swimming comes from racing my competitors only.”
@miklcct have you ever let yourself enjoy a swim?
"I am constantly thinking what kinds of national records I can achieve while I plan *
Is that true?!?
@miklcct curious how many years do you expect it to take to break a national record?
@KatieBun thanks
I feel the same about your posts, for the same reasons.
21kts! Wowee, that’s incredible! I’ve never been in water like that.
Life is short as it is, makes sense to me to whole heartedly pursue what you truly value in swimming and other areas of life.
You could always come to California and do a swim in the Santa Barbara channel some day. I bit of a long trip, but there isn’t a qualifier swim, and there are lots of dolphins!
Well, everyone is different, I know some people have done stuff like that without having a cold place to train. Knowing you from your posts, you always seem to have an enjoyable time with all your swims. The great thing about that attitude is you don’t risk a whole lot by trying— you can just go and see what happens and have a great time either way. Even if you didn’t finish, you might have a really cool experience and certainly would learn a lot.
Well, good luck with that. My forecast for this summer's JFJ was excellent, but something unexpected happened. A forecast is no guarantee.
As for not allowing any imperfection in your training, that's no guarantee, either.
It's a pity your DNF hasn't taught you anything positive about yourself. Instead, you sound bitter and angry about it, which is a shame.
I signed up my Channel slot this year with an aim to become the first Hongkonger to swim it, however my friend got a second hand slot afterwards and swam it before me.
I need to have a plan for everything I do and can't cope with anything unexpected (this is my neurological condition). The DNF has already proved to be that if I can't do things as expected it will become a disaster.
The DNF has taught me many things about the effect of my training process though, and I can certainly take the experience into account in my further challenges, but never anything positive.
It's true that I still feel bitter and angry about it, but why is it a shame? For me the DNF itself is already a shame and those people (high level competitive swimmers and triathletes) are laughing at me because they don't think I can get across based on the training times I published.
I'm aware that you need to have everything well planned, Michael, but this isn't the sport where that will work. There aren't the same guarantees that there may be with activities less dependent on so many variables. I'm afraid you may be perpetually doomed to disappointment if you think your meticulous planning will mitigate that.
After I posted my DNF story above, someone reached out privately to thank me for posting. “If someone like you sometimes doesn’t make it, I don’t feel as bad if I don’t”, they said.
I understand and have felt that way before too when hearing of the struggles of people I respect. I’m flattered someone would respect me enough to have that reaction. On the other hand, “people like me”... It sort of implies that if you are a certain level in swimming, it's assumed you are somehow immune or past the point of struggle, failure and growth—and people are surprised, relieved or validated when those with skill clearly still struggle.
I think everyone, not just "people like me" or "people like you", everyone of any level in anything struggles sometimes and even if someone hasn't yet had a DNF in swimming, everyone has had the experience of falling short of something they aimed for at some point in their lives.
Some swimmers do extraordinary preparation for their events. They prepare for the worst conditions they could experience both from their environment and from their own bodies and minds. They can finish when maybe others wouldn't, but it's never guaranteed. It takes many years to build the speed, cold tolerance, mental fortitude and endurance to persevere in the variety of conditions one might deal with the day of the event. The people who have these skills were not immune to the failures along the way. And I'm assuming they continue to fall short all the time, learning something from every training swim gone wrong, listening to their bodies over the years and years of experience leading up to the eventual jaw dropping performance. And even after that... still not immune to failure.
A DNF doesn't mean there is something inadequate about you, like you don't have what it takes. It could reveal something inadequate about your preparation, but no one swim can define you.
This concept of an unblemished record without any failures (of any kind)--somehow achieving greatness unscathed by overwhelming challenges is not only an illusion, it has the potential to derail people from their joy, taking risks, pushing for their very best and most important: learning from disappointing experiences.
As for people laughing, or shaming people for not being able to do something, they can laugh all they want. I'll be over here enjoying my swims, preparing well, improving my capacities and falling on my face as I move forward.
@LakeBagger “... falling on my face as I move forward. “
Brilliant! Such an image: I’m trying, but fall on my face. And when getting up, I move forward.
Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. --Neale Donald Walsch
If you haven't failed at something, you haven't tried hard enough. There aren't too many sports where there is a category of DNF. One sport that comes to mind is Formula 1 racing. It is the pinnacle of motorsports where only the elite drivers can compete.
One of the greatest drivers in the history of the sport, Michael Schumacher, drove for Ferrari in the late '90s and early 2000s. He absolutely dominated the sport while he was active. He was an unprecedented seven times World Champion. There were years where he won virtually every race he was in. He raced in 306 Grand Prix. Of those races he won 91 of them which works out to 29.7% win percentage. Pretty amazing for anyone in any sport.
It should also be noted that he DNF'd 67 times for a failure percentage of 21.9%. With a failure rate such as this, I'd expect he and the team had many learning opportunities and they certainly took advantage of them.
I think the topic of this thread is really valuable. Considering this site is devoted to increasing knowledge and helping us all achieve our goals, learning from other's DNF's is a great way to learn a lot without having to do all the varieties of failures yourself. So let's all get out there and keep failing!
It's been terrific reading everyone's stories on this thread!
Swim on!
A recent and perhaps somewhat ridiculous tale of woe: I happily registered to do the 1-mile Stinson Beach Sharkfest and arrived at the venue full of gumption. The gumption proceeded to completely evaporate at the start line, when I realized that the waves were so high that the buoys could not be seen from the shore.
I started the swim with everyone else. Then, the immense waves started pummeling me into the shore. I fought them for about five minutes and wiped out every time. Then, I heard a voice within my soul: You have a four-year-old at home. Not today.
Got out of the water, told the lifeguards, in my best Aragorn impersonation, "IT IS NOT THIS DAY!!!", got in the car and drove back home to my family.
What I learned from this is that I'm unwilling to do foolish things, which is all to the good.
Okay, it sometimes happens and happened again.
I finished Swim the Suck in Oct. 2021, so of course, the next step was to do a ten-miler without the current assist. Baby steps--no distance increase, just increase in level of difficulty for the same distance.
Enter the Kingdom ten-mile swim. Exit DPM50 at around 6 miles. Chop, wind, currents going this way and that.
I started out okay, not fast, but then again this was a ten-mile swim, and I thought it best to not blow the whole wad of energy in the first several miles. All was going ... (excuse the expression) swimmingly until we crossed the lake. Then the wave machine kicked in. But then it paused as we passed an island that more or less sheltered us ... and then back into the chop again.
I kept going, felt okay physically, but was (without telling my kayaker) vowing to retire from marathon swimming. We eventually reached a point where she said that I was caught in a place where I wasn't making progress. Cops in a nearby police boat agreed and advised the two of us to come aboard and take the ride to shore.
I was still feeling okay at that point, despite my frustration at not making more progress, and I think would have kept swimming, but I had an experienced kayaker whose judgment I respected. She knew the lake better than I did, and who knows how I would have felt if I'd kept battling. She told me I probably did closer to about 8-9 miles, but as my watch battery died at around 5.5, I'll take her word for it.
(Last year, I had pretty choppy conditions in the Great South Bay Swim, which, although listed at about 5.5 miles showed up on my gps as 6.1. These conditions were rougher, so I can believe I likely went further than 6.
The takeaway? Learning to handle choppy conditions is my next goal, and, no, I don't think I'll be retiring from marathon swimming (self, don't listen to promises made under duress).
So one question for the experts: if you don't live near choppy bodies of water, what are some strategies for improving your ability to handle chop? The Schuylkill, where I normally swim is fairly calm most of the time, and even when there's chop, it's NOTHING like Lake Memphremagog.
Trying to decide if my travel budget will allow for another go next year, but if so, I need to be ready to be tossed about like a ping pong ball for a while and learn to like it.
Really, I keep wondering how long I can pursue this marathon swimming and whether I have it in me to do something that involves a SPOT tracker and a longer-than-ten-mile distance. I'm 71, and those with common sense might tell me I should back off. But overall, I'm healthy so why not keep going as long as I can? Why not set more ambitious goals? When I first attempted the Bender Swim (then Valley Forge Marathon Swim), I got to 7 miles and had to bail. But since then, I've finished twice, most recently in 2020 (we had a flood in the Schuylkill last year so I didn't get to do the 8 then). I'm entered this year, but have a tweaky right arm lately, so we'll see. Just I don't want the Kingdom ten mile to be my last hurrah.
Thoughts?
Thoughts? You're a stud!!You are 71 and out there getting it done! I am envious of you!!!! All the best.
If you're still loving it and still able to do it, go for it! Age is just a label. You're doing something fabulous. Huge congratulations on doing Swim The Suck! Best of luck to you for your next swim.
Yeah! You rock and your mental and physical fortitude are admirable. We can all learn something from how you approach swimming: loving it and learning something every time.
I know a lot of the wind is just getting used to it, which sounds like it might be a challenge since the water is not choppy where you live. Something I’ve noticed is that the fact I have a steady kick when swimming seems to provide me with a lot of stability when the wind picks up. I know kicking isn’t popular among marathon swimmers— and for good reason (those big leg muscles take up lots of energy). But maybe it’s worth experimenting with improving your kick to see if it helps you in the wind or not.
I also try to focus on finding a place to anchor my hand under water, which is hard when the water is moving in many directions at once, but I focus on that more than what my arms are doing above the water, and it seems to help.
Maybe even getting to the race lake a few days early and going out in the afternoon (at the end of the lake opposite where the wind is coming from) for a short swim to get used to the chop might be good.
Again, you’re amazing
Aw thanks, folks!
@LakeBagger , I appreciate your suggestions about anchoring the arm and also about kicking. Kick sets are my least favorite in masters practices, ha! But maybe time to see them as opportunities to improve my rough-water skills.
I feel very fortunate to be able to swim the distances I do. I also love the way this forum raises the bar and I learn of women my age who are accomplishing things I can only dream of--Pat Charette with so many marathon swims, including the Triple Crown, Linda Ashmore, who set the record for oldest person to swim the English Channel. I don't know what I might be able to achieve, but why set limits? One step/one stroke at a time.
When I was running, I'd go into a race pretty much knowing what to expect based on my training. DNFs were rare, usually the result of injuries. Otherwise, my finish would be more or less what I expected, with variations depending on conditions (heat, heavy rain, lots of hills, etc.) although at that, there weren't many huge surprises. I knew too I could walk if needed and still make whatever cut-offs there were. But swimming? Hahaha! The saying about not stepping in the same river (or other body of water) twice very much applied there.
That was frustrating at first, but then exciting as I progressed in my swimming. DNF didn't feel like a defeat, only a learning experience.
Short and to the point. Crew is everything. The crew or at least one person on the crew needs to know you--especially when under physical and emotional stress so they know how you will react when under stress/cold/ feeling sorry for yourself or if you are in real trouble to pull you. Been there done that and learned a lot about myself and what I need for a successful swim. Not a pleasant experience but great takeaways on lessons learned. Keeps one humble.
@dpm50 Amazing doing what you do at 71! I'd love to be there in 25 years.
Serious advice: swimming in public lanes when most of the pool is taken by teenagers/age groups training. Ideally when they are doing kick sets, fly, or sprints. Use the line right beside the ones they are using.
dieciseisgrados.com/
Thanks for the suggestion! That sometimes happens by chance. Only I've sometimes wished I had earplugs to deal with the noise level!
Can be helpful too if I'm sharing a lane w several swimmers in a master's practice if we have an IM set.