I can't agree more with Theodore.....establish a baseline...don't train miles and miles mindlessly in a desperate attempt to improve....on longer training swims you/crew will observe the results of your training...speed and stroke count....I have never seen a swimmer "not loose power" and speed on longer swims...so I say don't blow the shoulders out with mindless over training...and you will have more power and reserves for the big day!!!
Absolutely! You definitely want to avoid shoulder injuries and you need rest/recovery time to be at your best. If you look at training plans for other endurance sports, there are usually blocks (several months each) that focus on endurance (base) or speed/intensity.
When I was bike racing, we would start in the fall with months of base miles. Each month, the first 3 weeks would increase in hours (like 12,15,18) then we would take a rest week with just 6-7 hours. Within a couple months of the season, we would focus more on speed, with lower weekly hours and several really hard rides each week (intervals, hills, etc.) but it would still be a 4 week cycle with a rest week. I found that if I didn't take the rest week seriously, after the second month, something would give, (illness/injury). Once the season started in earnest, the races (usually a couple each weekend) were the hard workouts and the rest of the week would have recovery days and some specific areas of focus (like hills, sprinting, team tactics, time trials, etc.).
I use a similar pattern with swimming based on my goals for the season. The last few years, I've swam about 20 races (1-10K) from mid-June to mid-September, with several of them picked out as priorities. I've felt pretty successful on 20-25K most weeks, with more volume in the winter, then adding intensity in the spring, throwing in a long swim (8-10K) every few weeks at that point. I usually add biking to work May-Sept, which helps my endurance without blowing up my shoulders. During the season, the races are hard and I need a couple of days to recover, (I'm 49), depending on distance, so I take more days off/easy and try to have a decent, intense workout by Thursday, so I feel primed for the next weekend's race(s). The base I do during the off-season is enough to cover a season of races, without losing my endurance. Recovery seems to become more important as I age, otherwise I end up feeling over trained.
This year, in addition to ~16 races, I'm planning a ~14 mile marathon swim in Puget Sound. I've spent a bit longer on base training and have been swimming weekly (weather permitting) in the Sound all winter (in a sleeveless wetsuit) to stay acclimated to cold. I was able to ditch the wetsuit last week and I have to say that I've never felt comfortable in 60 degree water as early as April, or 54 degree water ever, but it seemed really easy this time around, so that was a good strategy for me. I'm certainly not worried about water temps for June! I need to get crackin' on some speed work now, because I feel slower than usual for this time of year, but I also feel more confident in my ability to make that long, chilly swim.
Bottom line: Swim at a volume that is sustainable for you, give yourself time to rest/recover, change up your training to keep it interesting/challenging, add some long swims to give yourself confidence for your big events and...have fun!
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
Not sure where to begin. Going to spend time tonight going through the older threads on training. I guess I should first set a goal: STS or Ocean City's 9 miler.
@Leslie, you're safe either one you pick, with respect to training. I did StS on very low weekly mileage (comparatively). In 2012 the river gave us "only" a 10% push, some years more, some years less I'm sure.
Good luck! Lots of good knowledge here.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
My typical long distance training regimen calls for no further than 75- or 100-yard intervals on my goal pace with 15 to 20 seconds rest: A set of 20-30 repeats works just fine for me. As a competitive pool swimmer, too, I probably only spend 10-15% of my time working on distances of over one mile.
However, during the summer, at least once per week, I like to get out into the open water for some longer, 4-hour-plus, swims to work on the feeding schedule and mental preparation it takes to swim for hours on end.
I believe someone can prepare on low mileage but some long distance experience is helpful.
evmo said:
I want to point to an excellent comment over at the USMS forum by Chris Derks, a four-time winner of the Tampa Bay Marathon Swim who was also a player at the elite level in OWS. The comment is response to a guy who is currently training 16,000 yds/week and wonders what it will take to build up to a 38-mile swim.
This is such a great thread, and thanks for the link to Chris Derks advice, that thread is great also. I had the pleasure of providing kayak support for Chris for MIMS a while back. We were so far ahead of the pack, and I remember getting to Hell's Gate and it was completely wild. The standing waves were so high that I lost sight of the motor vessel when we were in the trough. I stayed as close to Chris as possible, and heard the one word he uttered during the entire swim, and that was WOW!!!
Ok, I've been going through the thread...as far back as 2014. I'm kind of new at the marathon swimming thing (a kinder way of calling myself an idiot). My question: when you all say you are swimming 25k/per week or 35,000 per week are you talking meters??? Trying to get an idea for either the 9 mile swim or the 10 mile swim--still haven't decided STS or Ocean City.
@Leslie, as mentioned I think in this post or maybe an StS post: I managed StS a month after DNF'ing a 10K on only about 15,000 meters per week, plus one or two (I'll have to go back to my logs to check) three hour pool swims (mostly 6 x 30 minutes with just enough rest to drink a little).
If you simply want to finish, you can do StS on little (comparatively) yardage/meterage per week. But I would advise a few long swims (time-wise). Those 3 hour swims saved me. The problem I had in the 10K a month prior to StS was I didn't have enough "horizontal time." What I mean by that is that my lower back couldn't stand that long horizontal. In the 10K, I had to sight (meaning no kayak escort) myself, so each time I'd lift my head (doing alligator eyes and barely lifting my head, granted) my lower back would feel it. That compounded over the 3+ hours I spent trying to finish that damn 10K.
So in the month prior to StS, I spent as much time as possible horizontal. Long (slow) sets with little rest. E.g. warm up of 500, 3 x 1500 w/:15 rest, 500 cool down. Real boring stuff, but very helpful to my plan simply to finish! Combine that prep with the fact that I had an awesome kayaker (thanks Uncle Tony) and never had to lift my head forward during StS, and sure enough, I finished StS strong and over 15 minutes faster than I thought I would. I can honestly say, and I said this at the end of StS, that I could have swum a couple more miles that day. (That of course means I didn't push hard enough, but again, that wasn't my goal for my first, and so far only, 10-miler.)
If you can only do one, I'd recommend StS. Nice flat river with the possibility of significant push from the dam release that will ease you into a 4+ hour swim. Ocean City is great, but there you'll also be fighting waves, cold and salt water. If you can prep for that, awesome.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
My typical training (Plan A) is a progressive and hold approach. I usually train for 38+ weeks for an ultra-swim (22+ miles). I progressively add more yardage each week to build to 40k yards in a week and I hold that amount for 3 – 4 weeks. Then, I will dip down from 40K for 2-3 weeks and then go back up and hold at that yardage. I will do 2 very long swims; 15K+ and a 30K during peak weeks. Like marathon running, I will not swim the entire distance which in the case of Loch Ness is 35k.
This training model is something that I’ve refined from my early swims and have solidified through a great long distance coach. When I started doing ultra-swims, I peaked at 60K per week on top of a full time, fast paced job. I suffered from overtraining. It took the wisdom of a coach, and the loss of sleep and appetite (a “canary” for an athlete) for me to realize that peaking at 40K per week is enough for me. Also, I learned the importance of recovery - - naps and days off. My swim week is training Monday through Sat morning. This way, I get almost 48 hours of recovery after my long Sat am swim.
Best formed plans can go sideways and its important to be flexible. Plan B for me can mean jamming all my training into 3 -4 days. Its not ideal but it can be useful for challenging my system as long as I get good recover afterwards.
The other thing that I’ve learned is to shake up where I swim and who I swim with. Variety is the spice of ultra training! Im very grateful for everyone that I train with, all the great training advice and places to swim.
Hi everyone, I have currently signed up to swim the English channel in July 2019. I have done 1 10k in a wet suit and up to 4 miles without one. I am struggling with how to set my training out for the next 2 years, I know it's a long way off but I think I should be well prepared. Any help would be great with this. cheers.
Also is anyone on here from the north east of England who might be wanting to do swims together or even coach me. thank you in advance
@walshy - from the NE England, your best bet would be to sign up for as many BLDSA swims as possible for 2018 (www.bldsa.org.uk). They're all non-wetsuit events and there are always plenty of Channel swimmers around (as swimmers and volunteers) whose brains you can pick. A lot of the swims are in the Lake District, which should be reasonably accessible for you from the NE; there's also a couple in Yorkshire. Some events require you to bring a support kayaker, but there are some volunteers who offer to kayak occasionally in exchange for expenses / cake, or you can do a deal with another swimmer to take it in turns for different events. In my experience, it's an easy way to build up your distance, get open water experience, work out your feeding regime etc in a safe and supported way.
I feel like I can chime in here now that I swam a 10K (which was more than a 10K because the course was changed to be more fun the day before). I hit a consistent 20K yards/week around January, held that through March, got sick in April and was out of the pool for a bit, then when I was back built back to 20K yards/wk, then built to about 30K yards/week in July. Then I fell and got a rock stuck in my knee and couldn't swim for two weeks, so my taper was pretty f'ing aggressive.
That was all quality work - long days were specific pool work in the AM followed by 60-90 minutes outside in the PM. I had one really long outside swim where I swam loops of the Lake Placid cable course (1.2 miles) with a beach stop for fuel in between. I swam 6 loops that day - 7.2 miles). I felt strong throughout (until my stomach decided to kill me), and actually managed to pick it up significantly in the last mile.
I've been reading this thread about weekly distances and it leaves me with a question. What kind of sets are most beneficial? My tendency is to do longer distance sets, but I see some people do sets of 100's in some of the posted workouts. Currently, I'm doing things like a 1000 or 1600 pace swim, then a set like: 800 sw, 200 pull, 600 sw, 400 pull, 400 sw, 600 pull. (Swim for pace, pull for technique. Still working on high elbows, balance and hand placement.) Some days I throw in a sprint workout which to the casual observer doesn't look a whole lot different from my all day pace. 10x200, leave on the 3:00 for example. Mainly, I'm doing longer pacing type swims to build my base and not really working on speed. If I go out and do a 100, I still can give a good accounting of myself, but that's never been my strength.
I'm doing 4500 a day right now and will up that to 5000 next week. I think I'd like to hold my workouts at that level. But I'm open to suggestions. When I'm back in the lake, I'll do a similar distance, just not as pool sets. I'm planning on racing a 5K, swimming some 10K's and attempting something longer than a 10K toward the end of summer. (~30K) And yes, I did read @evmo 's posting on the general plan. I will definitely do the longer 1/2 distance and 3/4 distance training swims.
Hi @curly your training seems almost identical to mine (albeit your daily volume is greater than mine for now). The gym pool I swim in is not setup for people to swim broken up sets. At various times you are likely to get a breastroker in the way or someone who bombs crazy fast for 5 lengths before getting out. I've therefore found myself swimming:
A 2.5km solid swim at relatively fast pace (Monday)
A 1km swim at maximum threshold (can't breath, see or feel anything at the end) then maximum 1 minute recovery followed by another 1km at my Monday pace followed by 30 second break and into a sprint 500m (Tuesday).
A gym core exercise day (Wednesday)
An early morning 4.5 to 5km solid swim at relatively fast pace whilst trying out different gels/liquids (I usually take these at the 3.2km mark because my 10km event in June is split into mile laps and I don't want to come to the feeding pontoon after just one mile) (Thursday)
A 2.5km solid swim at relatively fast pace (Friday)
If I have a weekend then i'll do a 7.5km solid swim on a Saturday/Sunday
I'm doing around 12.5 to 20km (depending on the weekend swim) / week. I've got a 10km swim in June and then an 18km swim in September as my goals. I will increase the 2.5km swims towards the 4km mark from March onwards.
But like you, I see that many people swear by broken sets so I can only assume they are more beneficial than what I'm doing above.
Thanks @Sam for the input. I was hoping a few others would comment so we could get a wider range of opinions. My current philosophy is to build up that base yardage and get used to that. But also I include a little short distance, quicker pace sets. I still think there is value to the shorter distance sets. For one, it makes the workouts interesting. For two, it keeps you honest. By that I mean that you have to vary your pace and effort. Knocking off some "sprint" sets is a good way to make sure you don't just plod along and put in your time.
I'm also toying with the idea of varying the total distance of my workouts. I've read a few postings where people push the distance out and then back off, then push out again. @Patti 's posting for example. This is sort of an acclimatization approach, like high altitude mountain climbing uses. I like that because you push and then rest. This sounds like a good plan for me because I don't want to burnout. When I reflect back on my youthful swim team days, I trained for the season, then I goofed off until the next season. It was only when I started training hard year round that I burned out and faded away. I don't want to do that again.
@curly, I really like Steve Munatones' pyramid scheme (/snort/) and when I actually have a week that is planned beyond "Hey, I have time to go swim!" then I try and make 3 of my weekly swims the 3 parts of the base of the pyramid.
One thing I without a doubt accomplish: At least one long swim a month prior to my event. Can't always be as long as I'd like, but as long as I can get. The max I can get here in Moscow is 4 hours in a pool, which I took advantage of twice last year, doing 11,000 yards one day and 11.2km a couple weeks later (two diff pools). That "time horizontal" really helped. I also try 3-4 weeks out to swim at least as many hours in one week as I think the big swim will take me. It was ironic in Issyk Kul when the 4th week out from the big swim I swam six hours and two minutes, and then on the big day did the crossing in exactly that time!
One thing I would add if/when I do another salt-water long OW swim: acclimatize myself to the water. I learned in MD that too much salt water upsets my stomach, so I know in the future, if I sign up for any swim in such an environment, I'm going to put in some hours in salt water so I can get used to it.
Finally, as discussed in another thread, I add weights during the off season. I've had lower back issues in the past, and I just don't want to have them again. It's been a number of years, but I"m not taking any chances.
Good luck!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Thanks @IronMike , I have seen that pyramid in the past and kind of forgot about it. It still is a good coverage of the process. I would modify that a bit or maybe I don't quite understand his definitions. For base training, I would include skills training, which in my mind is stroke technique. But maybe that's what he means, and the skills training he's referring to is actually open water or racing skills.
The foundation of my pyramid is technique, distance and speed. Next level is acclimatization and big long swims in my favorite lake with my favorite kayaker. (I love this part of the pyramid.) Racing is fun because I no longer pressure myself, I just try to race anything that moves. Sometimes I win and sometimes a 14 year old blows me out of the water. But it really doesn't matter any more.
So the tactical part of the pyramid isn't so important to me. The tip of my pyramid would be to continue to explore what I can accomplish and enjoy the process while I'm getting there.
curly said:
Thanks @IronMike , I have seen that pyramid in the past and kind of forgot about it. It still is a good coverage of the process. I would modify that a bit or maybe I don't quite understand his definitions. For base training, I would include skills training, which in my mind is stroke technique. But maybe that's what he means, and the skills training he's referring to is actually open water or racing skills.
The foundation of my pyramid is technique, distance and speed. Next level is acclimatization and big long swims in my favorite lake with my favorite kayaker. (I love this part of the pyramid.) Racing is fun because I no longer pressure myself, I just try to race anything that moves. Sometimes I win and sometimes a 14 year old blows me out of the water. But it really doesn't matter any more.
So the tactical part of the pyramid isn't so important to me. The tip of my pyramid would be to continue to explore what I can accomplish and enjoy the process while I'm getting there.
Yes, I had issues with his book, mostly the parts that aren't for beginners. (He spends too much time on how to jockey for position and other techniques for front of the pack swimmers, when the book pretty much sells itself as a beginner-to-intermediate book.) But the base of his pyramid I like. The book is worth getting still.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Im 58. I swim all year. Regular season is about 4 x 4,000 workouts per week. To prepare for summer swimming I used to ramp up to about 30,000 per week and that enabled me to complete multi-stages for 8 Bridges, 20 Bridges and other multi-hour swims. Last summer I decided to train no more than 22,000 per week. It was sufficient for completing several stages of 8 Bridges and several other long swims (I had to abort one swim for temp reasons). I enjoyed my training more doing less and the pressure was off me.
Update. I'm really pleased with my ramping up the yardage and then backing off for a week. I even took a little vacation this past week. This usually completely screws me up. This time I started back in the pool after a week off and have steadily added yardage each day. Today 4500 and tomorrow 5K and so far it's been a breeze.
I actually had a blast today because the pool was a bit crowded and a couple swim team dudes jumped in my lane. I had to pick up the pace a bit and did so with ease. I was doing a nice set of 8x500's and it was really fun having a couple other swimmers keeping me honest. I ended the workout with a set of 5x100's and surprised myself. (I think I may have surprised the kids too.) I felt way better and stronger than I did last week when I was doing this kind of workout.
Interesting reads, I am bad at planning so I tend to have an idea in my head of mileage I want to hit in the run up to events but I write nothing down.
Historically I have gone with the approach that I want to have 2-3 swims of at least 3/4 of my long distance event for that year done before OW season begins. However my longest swim in prior years has been 25km. This year with End Wet I am struggling with this more, as in finding the time to swim 27 miles in one set in a pool is a challenge, so I am trying to return to the old reliable of "you can swim in a day what you can swim in a week".
We are roughly 8 weeks out from End Wet so last week was a 35km week, this week the plan is 40-45km, then next week 45-50km and so on until I manage preferably two weeks of 60km swim in May (potentially affected by a week of work in Brazil, so trying to ensure a good pool at the hotel )
My actual sets have a tendency to be very boring with generally 1000*X depending on the aim for the day. Thankfully I work in accounting so just counting 1-40 constantly does not feel that boring.
Copelj26 said:
Interesting reads, I am bad at planning so I tend to have an idea in my head of mileage I want to hit in the run up to events but I write nothing down.
Historically I have gone with the approach that I want to have 2-3 swims of at least 3/4 of my long distance event for that year done before OW season begins. However my longest swim in prior years has been 25km. This year with End Wet I am struggling with this more, as in finding the time to swim 27 miles in one set in a pool is a challenge, so I am trying to return to the old reliable of "you can swim in a day what you can swim in a week".
We are roughly 8 weeks out from End Wet so last week was a 35km week, this week the plan is 40-45km, then next week 45-50km and so on until I manage preferably two weeks of 60km swim in May (potentially affected by a week of work in Brazil, so trying to ensure a good pool at the hotel )
My actual sets have a tendency to be very boring with generally 1000*X depending on the aim for the day. Thankfully I work in accounting so just counting 1-40 constantly does not feel that boring.
I get into trouble when I set schedules like this! Always have to back off quite a bit every 3rd or 4th week for recovery. Probably because I am an old guy and not much of an athlete, though.
@Copelj26 said: Historically I have gone with the approach that I want to have 2-3 swims of at least 3/4 of my long distance event for that year done before OW season begins.
This year with End Wet I am struggling with this more, as in finding the time to swim 27 miles in one set in a pool is a challenge, so I am trying to return to the old reliable of "you can swim in a day what you can swim in a week".
We are roughly 8 weeks out from End Wet so last week was a 35km week, this week the plan is 40-45km, then next week 45-50km and so on until I manage preferably two weeks of 60km swim in May
Are you accounting for the current push you will get in END-WET? Not sure this calls for a 27 mile training swim in a pool. Looking at past results it seems like END-WET swims more like a 20-22 miler, depending on the swimmer's speed.
@evmo definitely been keeping that in mind, but like to go with policy of prepare for the worst and there being bugger all current. As such I would prefer to potentially over train until last week of May.
Copelj26 said:
Interesting reads, I am bad at planning so I tend to have an idea in my head of mileage I want to hit in the run up to events but I write nothing down.
Historically I have gone with the approach that I want to have 2-3 swims of at least 3/4 of my long distance event for that year done before OW season begins. However my longest swim in prior years has been 25km. This year with End Wet I am struggling with this more, as in finding the time to swim 27 miles in one set in a pool is a challenge, so I am trying to return to the old reliable of "you can swim in a day what you can swim in a week".
We are roughly 8 weeks out from End Wet so last week was a 35km week, this week the plan is 40-45km, then next week 45-50km and so on until I manage preferably two weeks of 60km swim in May (potentially affected by a week of work in Brazil, so trying to ensure a good pool at the hotel )
My actual sets have a tendency to be very boring with generally 1000*X depending on the aim for the day. Thankfully I work in accounting so just counting 1-40 constantly does not feel that boring.
@Copelj26 I'm also training for End Wet and have pondered the same sorts of things. I did a "long day" where I swam just under 5 hour swim workout, hiked for 1.5 hours, then did another 1.5 hours in the pool, all the while eating and drinking what I plan to eat during the race. It was fun and I want to do it again with a longer pool swim, a longer hike and then a lake swim. I like to think that by the second swim you might be feeling that all-day-aerobic fatigue, similar to what swimming all day might be like (but without having to stay in the pool all day). I guess I will find out how well this approach actually works... Hope to meet you at the race!
SLSchneider said:
Im 58. I swim all year. Regular season is about 4 x 4,000 workouts per week. To prepare for summer swimming I used to ramp up to about 30,000 per week and that enabled me to complete multi-stages for 8 Bridges, 20 Bridges and other multi-hour swims. Last summer I decided to train no more than 22,000 per week. It was sufficient for completing several stages of 8 Bridges and several other long swims (I had to abort one swim for temp reasons). I enjoyed my training more doing less and the pressure was off me.
I'm with you dude, I'm only 54... swim all year and find 4x4k more than sufficient to maintain fitness and technique. I also do weight training which I find vital. Being on the sunny side of 50 is cool, the young guns feel the need to 'express themselves' whereas I enjoy the moment more. I'm planning on swimming with a flask when I'm 60.
so I'm wanting to do a double robben island, 15km, swim at the end of the year. I did the one way, 7.5km in Feb this year comfortably in 2h20. I'm trying to do around 12km a week at the moment mostly gym swims with the odd ocean swim.
So I've put together a 10 week training plan and I'd like input. I don't get to the ocean during the week hence the single open water swim each week.
week 1: total 16km - 3x4km pool swims plus 4km open water
week 2: total 10km - 2x3km pool swims plus 3km open water - rest week
week 3: total 17km - 2x4.5km plus 3km pool swims plus 5km open water
week 4: total 17km - 2x4.5km plus 3km pool swims plus 5km open water
week 5: total 18km - 3x4km pool swims plus 6km open water
week 6: total 9km - 3x 3km easy swims
week 7: total 19.5km - 3x4.5km pools swims plus 6km open water
week 8: total 20km - 2x5km pool swim plus 10km open water
week 9: total 20km - 2x5km pool swim plus 10km open water
When you say a 4km pool swim, for example, what is that? Do you go and swim 4k non-stop at the pool, or is it 4k total distance broken into a number of different sets.
In my mind there is a big difference between a swim workout that uses a bunch of different sets and speeds vs. a 4k swim at a steady pace.
The overall program makes sense to me regarding a build up of distance combined with some rest weeks. Depending on your effort on the regular workout weeks, the rest week and taper might not do all that much for you. If you're cranking on the workouts, then the rest and taper will have impact. So that's one of the reasons that I'm curious about the content of the workouts.
hi Curly. My pool sets are usually a combination of 1500-2000 straight and then a mix of speed work and different strokes. I try and mix them up. Maybe once every 3 weeks I'll feel like doing the 4km pool set straight. The rest weeks are partly because I get physically tried getting up early to swim and just to give the body a rest
Whatever the minimum is, I'm doing less.
Starting from zero kelvin.. and am now at just plain zero.
I have no idea where I was able to find the time/energy to train for some of the swims I've done.
Banking on experience now...
As a relative newbie (swimming for 8 years) and my marathons take from 6-10 hours to complete. I keep a base of 15k a week in the off season and then increase that over 6 months to have a couple of weeks peaking around 40k a week while never increasing more than 2k from the previous week. I don't usually do more than 4 hour training swims a couple of times in preparation, I'm a little odd in that. This weeks for me
suziedods said:
Whatever the minimum is, I'm doing less.
Starting from zero kelvin.. and am now at just plain zero.
I have no idea where I was able to find the time/energy to train for some of the swims I've done.
Banking on experience now...
Sounds depressing! What happened? I will say that for the past year I've found my biggest limiter is boredom. I still very much love my daily masters swims and the OW swims I can fit into my schedule. But the 10-20k pool swims? UGH. Sometimes I stand on the edge of the pool and dread getting in. I've had two swims this spring where I just quit mid-workout for no reason other than boredom. Started daydreaming about something else I wanted to do, climbed out and toweled off.
"Lights go out and I can't be saved
Tides that I tried to swim against
Have brought be down upon my knees
Oh I beg, I beg and plead..."
j9swim said:
As a relative newbie (swimming for 8 years) and my marathons take from 6-10 hours to complete. I keep a base of 15k a week in the off season and then increase that over 6 months to have a couple of weeks peaking around 40k a week while never increasing more than 2k from the previous week. I don't usually do more than 4 hour training swims a couple of times in preparation, I'm a little odd in that. This weeks for me
what distance do you call a marathon? 40km a week is more than I need
@glenn - technically its 10k or greater. For the last 3 years i've been training for swims from 15k to 35k. but i calculate this more about my expected time to complete than the actual distance .
@Spacemanspiff - first off , a "like" from you makes my day. I love your writing.
The past 5 years have been otherwise occupied with "life in my 50's". But, finally finding time and MAKING time to swim regularly. My pool swims are not that long, I'm just trying to be consistent w something. I hit a "oh dear I'm bored " moment a couple of weeks ago in the bay and had to remind myself how lucky I am to be able there. I'm hoping the changing scenery in WA MIMS will alleviate that issue. I'm more nervous about not finishing...
The not swimming wasn't depressing, it was everything else that was happening...
Our group is doing a 35 mile 6 person relay. Besides training like you are doing a 5 or 10K swim. Is there anything special about relay training. One hour non stop then 5 hr rest. Do we need to train like we are doing a 10k? Any help appreciated. Only 2 swimmers have open water experience.
My thought is that the ability to swim straight in open water will be more important than the amount of training. Having the 4 swimmers with no open water experience find a way to train in open water will be very helpful.
glenn said:
so I'm wanting to do a double robben island, 15km, swim at the end of the year. I did the one way, 7.5km in Feb this year comfortably in 2h20. I'm trying to do around 12km a week at the moment mostly gym swims with the odd ocean swim.
So I've put together a 10 week training plan and I'd like input. I don't get to the ocean during the week hence the single open water swim each week.
Only endurance stuff? No speedwork to up your basic speed and make swimming as a whole a bit easier?
Danny said:
Our group is doing a 35 mile 6 person relay. Besides training like you are doing a 5 or 10K swim. Is there anything special about relay training. One hour non stop then 5 hr rest. Do we need to train like we are doing a 10k? Any help appreciated. Only 2 swimmers have open water experience.
The most important thing is making sure you all have open water experience before the day - you are all counting on each other! Other than that, you may find it helpful to practice getting out and getting back in. Particularly if your target swim is cold, it will be tougher to get back in each time. You don't necessarily need to wait five hours in between, but a second swim after a decent interval would be good practice. Lastly, find out how everybody does on a slow-moving boat! Seasickness is a significant factor for relay swims.
glenn said:
so I'm wanting to do a double robben island, 15km, swim at the end of the year. I did the one way, 7.5km in Feb this year comfortably in 2h20. I'm trying to do around 12km a week at the moment mostly gym swims with the odd ocean swim.
So I've put together a 10 week training plan and I'd like input. I don't get to the ocean during the week hence the single open water swim each week.
Only endurance stuff? No speedwork to up your basic speed and make swimming as a whole a bit easier?
Variety is key, in my book.
The pool sessions will be made up of speed work and distance, definitely
Danny said:
Our group is doing a 35 mile 6 person relay. Besides training like you are doing a 5 or 10K swim. Is there anything special about relay training. One hour non stop then 5 hr rest. Do we need to train like we are doing a 10k? Any help appreciated. Only 2 swimmers have open water experience.
The most important thing is making sure you all have open water experience before the day - you are all counting on each other! Other than that, you may find it helpful to practice getting out and getting back in. Particularly if your target swim is cold, it will be tougher to get back in each time. You don't necessarily need to wait five hours in between, but a second swim after a decent interval would be good practice. Lastly, find out how everybody does on a slow-moving boat! Seasickness is a significant factor for relay swims.
Comments
I can't agree more with Theodore.....establish a baseline...don't train miles and miles mindlessly in a desperate attempt to improve....on longer training swims you/crew will observe the results of your training...speed and stroke count....I have never seen a swimmer "not loose power" and speed on longer swims...so I say don't blow the shoulders out with mindless over training...and you will have more power and reserves for the big day!!!
"I never met a shark I didn't like"
Is it worth varying the weeks to preserve the shoulders. So a high mileage week followed by a more easy one?
Absolutely! You definitely want to avoid shoulder injuries and you need rest/recovery time to be at your best. If you look at training plans for other endurance sports, there are usually blocks (several months each) that focus on endurance (base) or speed/intensity.
When I was bike racing, we would start in the fall with months of base miles. Each month, the first 3 weeks would increase in hours (like 12,15,18) then we would take a rest week with just 6-7 hours. Within a couple months of the season, we would focus more on speed, with lower weekly hours and several really hard rides each week (intervals, hills, etc.) but it would still be a 4 week cycle with a rest week. I found that if I didn't take the rest week seriously, after the second month, something would give, (illness/injury). Once the season started in earnest, the races (usually a couple each weekend) were the hard workouts and the rest of the week would have recovery days and some specific areas of focus (like hills, sprinting, team tactics, time trials, etc.).
I use a similar pattern with swimming based on my goals for the season. The last few years, I've swam about 20 races (1-10K) from mid-June to mid-September, with several of them picked out as priorities. I've felt pretty successful on 20-25K most weeks, with more volume in the winter, then adding intensity in the spring, throwing in a long swim (8-10K) every few weeks at that point. I usually add biking to work May-Sept, which helps my endurance without blowing up my shoulders. During the season, the races are hard and I need a couple of days to recover, (I'm 49), depending on distance, so I take more days off/easy and try to have a decent, intense workout by Thursday, so I feel primed for the next weekend's race(s). The base I do during the off-season is enough to cover a season of races, without losing my endurance. Recovery seems to become more important as I age, otherwise I end up feeling over trained.
This year, in addition to ~16 races, I'm planning a ~14 mile marathon swim in Puget Sound. I've spent a bit longer on base training and have been swimming weekly (weather permitting) in the Sound all winter (in a sleeveless wetsuit) to stay acclimated to cold. I was able to ditch the wetsuit last week and I have to say that I've never felt comfortable in 60 degree water as early as April, or 54 degree water ever, but it seemed really easy this time around, so that was a good strategy for me. I'm certainly not worried about water temps for June! I need to get crackin' on some speed work now, because I feel slower than usual for this time of year, but I also feel more confident in my ability to make that long, chilly swim.
Bottom line: Swim at a volume that is sustainable for you, give yourself time to rest/recover, change up your training to keep it interesting/challenging, add some long swims to give yourself confidence for your big events and...have fun!
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
'tis the time of year when people start setting goals for the summer, and planning how to reach them.
Any new thoughts on weekly training volume?
Other good training threads here:
http://marathonswimmers.org/forum/discussions/tagged/training
I"m going with the "You can swim in a day what you can swim in a week" philosophy. We'll see how it works.
Not sure where to begin. Going to spend time tonight going through the older threads on training. I guess I should first set a goal: STS or Ocean City's 9 miler.
@Leslie, you're safe either one you pick, with respect to training. I did StS on very low weekly mileage (comparatively). In 2012 the river gave us "only" a 10% push, some years more, some years less I'm sure.
Good luck! Lots of good knowledge here.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
My typical long distance training regimen calls for no further than 75- or 100-yard intervals on my goal pace with 15 to 20 seconds rest: A set of 20-30 repeats works just fine for me. As a competitive pool swimmer, too, I probably only spend 10-15% of my time working on distances of over one mile.
However, during the summer, at least once per week, I like to get out into the open water for some longer, 4-hour-plus, swims to work on the feeding schedule and mental preparation it takes to swim for hours on end.
I believe someone can prepare on low mileage but some long distance experience is helpful.
This is such a great thread, and thanks for the link to Chris Derks advice, that thread is great also. I had the pleasure of providing kayak support for Chris for MIMS a while back. We were so far ahead of the pack, and I remember getting to Hell's Gate and it was completely wild. The standing waves were so high that I lost sight of the motor vessel when we were in the trough. I stayed as close to Chris as possible, and heard the one word he uttered during the entire swim, and that was WOW!!!
Ok, I've been going through the thread...as far back as 2014. I'm kind of new at the marathon swimming thing (a kinder way of calling myself an idiot). My question: when you all say you are swimming 25k/per week or 35,000 per week are you talking meters??? Trying to get an idea for either the 9 mile swim or the 10 mile swim--still haven't decided STS or Ocean City.
@Leslie, as mentioned I think in this post or maybe an StS post: I managed StS a month after DNF'ing a 10K on only about 15,000 meters per week, plus one or two (I'll have to go back to my logs to check) three hour pool swims (mostly 6 x 30 minutes with just enough rest to drink a little).
If you simply want to finish, you can do StS on little (comparatively) yardage/meterage per week. But I would advise a few long swims (time-wise). Those 3 hour swims saved me. The problem I had in the 10K a month prior to StS was I didn't have enough "horizontal time." What I mean by that is that my lower back couldn't stand that long horizontal. In the 10K, I had to sight (meaning no kayak escort) myself, so each time I'd lift my head (doing alligator eyes and barely lifting my head, granted) my lower back would feel it. That compounded over the 3+ hours I spent trying to finish that damn 10K.
So in the month prior to StS, I spent as much time as possible horizontal. Long (slow) sets with little rest. E.g. warm up of 500, 3 x 1500 w/:15 rest, 500 cool down. Real boring stuff, but very helpful to my plan simply to finish! Combine that prep with the fact that I had an awesome kayaker (thanks Uncle Tony) and never had to lift my head forward during StS, and sure enough, I finished StS strong and over 15 minutes faster than I thought I would. I can honestly say, and I said this at the end of StS, that I could have swum a couple more miles that day. (That of course means I didn't push hard enough, but again, that wasn't my goal for my first, and so far only, 10-miler.)
If you can only do one, I'd recommend StS. Nice flat river with the possibility of significant push from the dam release that will ease you into a 4+ hour swim. Ocean City is great, but there you'll also be fighting waves, cold and salt water. If you can prep for that, awesome.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Merci @IronMike Good stuff. I think I may actually seriously consider both. Le sigh.......I have reasons why I want to do both swims. Thanks again!!
My typical training (Plan A) is a progressive and hold approach. I usually train for 38+ weeks for an ultra-swim (22+ miles). I progressively add more yardage each week to build to 40k yards in a week and I hold that amount for 3 – 4 weeks. Then, I will dip down from 40K for 2-3 weeks and then go back up and hold at that yardage. I will do 2 very long swims; 15K+ and a 30K during peak weeks. Like marathon running, I will not swim the entire distance which in the case of Loch Ness is 35k.
This training model is something that I’ve refined from my early swims and have solidified through a great long distance coach. When I started doing ultra-swims, I peaked at 60K per week on top of a full time, fast paced job. I suffered from overtraining. It took the wisdom of a coach, and the loss of sleep and appetite (a “canary” for an athlete) for me to realize that peaking at 40K per week is enough for me. Also, I learned the importance of recovery - - naps and days off. My swim week is training Monday through Sat morning. This way, I get almost 48 hours of recovery after my long Sat am swim.
Best formed plans can go sideways and its important to be flexible. Plan B for me can mean jamming all my training into 3 -4 days. Its not ideal but it can be useful for challenging my system as long as I get good recover afterwards.
The other thing that I’ve learned is to shake up where I swim and who I swim with. Variety is the spice of ultra training! Im very grateful for everyone that I train with, all the great training advice and places to swim.
Here's a link to a blog that includes a screen shot of my plan.
https://www.ikeepswimming.com/news/2017/7/17/training-to-a-plan-while-having-a-plan-b
Hope this is helpful. Happy to share more detail. pattiswim@gmail.com
Hi everyone, I have currently signed up to swim the English channel in July 2019. I have done 1 10k in a wet suit and up to 4 miles without one. I am struggling with how to set my training out for the next 2 years, I know it's a long way off but I think I should be well prepared. Any help would be great with this. cheers.
Also is anyone on here from the north east of England who might be wanting to do swims together or even coach me. thank you in advance
@walshy - from the NE England, your best bet would be to sign up for as many BLDSA swims as possible for 2018 (www.bldsa.org.uk). They're all non-wetsuit events and there are always plenty of Channel swimmers around (as swimmers and volunteers) whose brains you can pick. A lot of the swims are in the Lake District, which should be reasonably accessible for you from the NE; there's also a couple in Yorkshire. Some events require you to bring a support kayaker, but there are some volunteers who offer to kayak occasionally in exchange for expenses / cake, or you can do a deal with another swimmer to take it in turns for different events. In my experience, it's an easy way to build up your distance, get open water experience, work out your feeding regime etc in a safe and supported way.
@KarenT cake ? did someone mention cake?? I'd kayak for cake!!
I feel like I can chime in here now that I swam a 10K (which was more than a 10K because the course was changed to be more fun the day before). I hit a consistent 20K yards/week around January, held that through March, got sick in April and was out of the pool for a bit, then when I was back built back to 20K yards/wk, then built to about 30K yards/week in July. Then I fell and got a rock stuck in my knee and couldn't swim for two weeks, so my taper was pretty f'ing aggressive.
That was all quality work - long days were specific pool work in the AM followed by 60-90 minutes outside in the PM. I had one really long outside swim where I swam loops of the Lake Placid cable course (1.2 miles) with a beach stop for fuel in between. I swam 6 loops that day - 7.2 miles). I felt strong throughout (until my stomach decided to kill me), and actually managed to pick it up significantly in the last mile.
I've been reading this thread about weekly distances and it leaves me with a question. What kind of sets are most beneficial? My tendency is to do longer distance sets, but I see some people do sets of 100's in some of the posted workouts. Currently, I'm doing things like a 1000 or 1600 pace swim, then a set like: 800 sw, 200 pull, 600 sw, 400 pull, 400 sw, 600 pull. (Swim for pace, pull for technique. Still working on high elbows, balance and hand placement.) Some days I throw in a sprint workout which to the casual observer doesn't look a whole lot different from my all day pace. 10x200, leave on the 3:00 for example. Mainly, I'm doing longer pacing type swims to build my base and not really working on speed. If I go out and do a 100, I still can give a good accounting of myself, but that's never been my strength.
I'm doing 4500 a day right now and will up that to 5000 next week. I think I'd like to hold my workouts at that level. But I'm open to suggestions. When I'm back in the lake, I'll do a similar distance, just not as pool sets. I'm planning on racing a 5K, swimming some 10K's and attempting something longer than a 10K toward the end of summer. (~30K) And yes, I did read @evmo 's posting on the general plan. I will definitely do the longer 1/2 distance and 3/4 distance training swims.
Hi @curly your training seems almost identical to mine (albeit your daily volume is greater than mine for now). The gym pool I swim in is not setup for people to swim broken up sets. At various times you are likely to get a breastroker in the way or someone who bombs crazy fast for 5 lengths before getting out. I've therefore found myself swimming:
I'm doing around 12.5 to 20km (depending on the weekend swim) / week. I've got a 10km swim in June and then an 18km swim in September as my goals. I will increase the 2.5km swims towards the 4km mark from March onwards.
But like you, I see that many people swear by broken sets so I can only assume they are more beneficial than what I'm doing above.
Thanks @Sam for the input. I was hoping a few others would comment so we could get a wider range of opinions. My current philosophy is to build up that base yardage and get used to that. But also I include a little short distance, quicker pace sets. I still think there is value to the shorter distance sets. For one, it makes the workouts interesting. For two, it keeps you honest. By that I mean that you have to vary your pace and effort. Knocking off some "sprint" sets is a good way to make sure you don't just plod along and put in your time.
I'm also toying with the idea of varying the total distance of my workouts. I've read a few postings where people push the distance out and then back off, then push out again. @Patti 's posting for example. This is sort of an acclimatization approach, like high altitude mountain climbing uses. I like that because you push and then rest. This sounds like a good plan for me because I don't want to burnout. When I reflect back on my youthful swim team days, I trained for the season, then I goofed off until the next season. It was only when I started training hard year round that I burned out and faded away. I don't want to do that again.
@curly, I really like Steve Munatones' pyramid scheme (/snort/) and when I actually have a week that is planned beyond "Hey, I have time to go swim!" then I try and make 3 of my weekly swims the 3 parts of the base of the pyramid.
One thing I without a doubt accomplish: At least one long swim a month prior to my event. Can't always be as long as I'd like, but as long as I can get. The max I can get here in Moscow is 4 hours in a pool, which I took advantage of twice last year, doing 11,000 yards one day and 11.2km a couple weeks later (two diff pools). That "time horizontal" really helped. I also try 3-4 weeks out to swim at least as many hours in one week as I think the big swim will take me. It was ironic in Issyk Kul when the 4th week out from the big swim I swam six hours and two minutes, and then on the big day did the crossing in exactly that time!
One thing I would add if/when I do another salt-water long OW swim: acclimatize myself to the water. I learned in MD that too much salt water upsets my stomach, so I know in the future, if I sign up for any swim in such an environment, I'm going to put in some hours in salt water so I can get used to it.
Finally, as discussed in another thread, I add weights during the off season. I've had lower back issues in the past, and I just don't want to have them again. It's been a number of years, but I"m not taking any chances.
Good luck!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Thanks @IronMike , I have seen that pyramid in the past and kind of forgot about it. It still is a good coverage of the process. I would modify that a bit or maybe I don't quite understand his definitions. For base training, I would include skills training, which in my mind is stroke technique. But maybe that's what he means, and the skills training he's referring to is actually open water or racing skills.
The foundation of my pyramid is technique, distance and speed. Next level is acclimatization and big long swims in my favorite lake with my favorite kayaker. (I love this part of the pyramid.) Racing is fun because I no longer pressure myself, I just try to race anything that moves. Sometimes I win and sometimes a 14 year old blows me out of the water. But it really doesn't matter any more.
So the tactical part of the pyramid isn't so important to me. The tip of my pyramid would be to continue to explore what I can accomplish and enjoy the process while I'm getting there.
Yes, I had issues with his book, mostly the parts that aren't for beginners. (He spends too much time on how to jockey for position and other techniques for front of the pack swimmers, when the book pretty much sells itself as a beginner-to-intermediate book.) But the base of his pyramid I like. The book is worth getting still.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Im 58. I swim all year. Regular season is about 4 x 4,000 workouts per week. To prepare for summer swimming I used to ramp up to about 30,000 per week and that enabled me to complete multi-stages for 8 Bridges, 20 Bridges and other multi-hour swims. Last summer I decided to train no more than 22,000 per week. It was sufficient for completing several stages of 8 Bridges and several other long swims (I had to abort one swim for temp reasons). I enjoyed my training more doing less and the pressure was off me.
Update. I'm really pleased with my ramping up the yardage and then backing off for a week. I even took a little vacation this past week. This usually completely screws me up. This time I started back in the pool after a week off and have steadily added yardage each day. Today 4500 and tomorrow 5K and so far it's been a breeze.
I actually had a blast today because the pool was a bit crowded and a couple swim team dudes jumped in my lane. I had to pick up the pace a bit and did so with ease. I was doing a nice set of 8x500's and it was really fun having a couple other swimmers keeping me honest. I ended the workout with a set of 5x100's and surprised myself. (I think I may have surprised the kids too.) I felt way better and stronger than I did last week when I was doing this kind of workout.
Interesting reads, I am bad at planning so I tend to have an idea in my head of mileage I want to hit in the run up to events but I write nothing down.
Historically I have gone with the approach that I want to have 2-3 swims of at least 3/4 of my long distance event for that year done before OW season begins. However my longest swim in prior years has been 25km. This year with End Wet I am struggling with this more, as in finding the time to swim 27 miles in one set in a pool is a challenge, so I am trying to return to the old reliable of "you can swim in a day what you can swim in a week".
We are roughly 8 weeks out from End Wet so last week was a 35km week, this week the plan is 40-45km, then next week 45-50km and so on until I manage preferably two weeks of 60km swim in May (potentially affected by a week of work in Brazil, so trying to ensure a good pool at the hotel
)
My actual sets have a tendency to be very boring with generally 1000*X depending on the aim for the day. Thankfully I work in accounting so just counting 1-40 constantly does not feel that boring.
I get into trouble when I set schedules like this! Always have to back off quite a bit every 3rd or 4th week for recovery. Probably because I am an old guy and not much of an athlete, though.
Are you accounting for the current push you will get in END-WET? Not sure this calls for a 27 mile training swim in a pool. Looking at past results it seems like END-WET swims more like a 20-22 miler, depending on the swimmer's speed.
@evmo definitely been keeping that in mind, but like to go with policy of prepare for the worst and there being bugger all current. As such I would prefer to potentially over train until last week of May.
@Copelj26 I'm also training for End Wet and have pondered the same sorts of things. I did a "long day" where I swam just under 5 hour swim workout, hiked for 1.5 hours, then did another 1.5 hours in the pool, all the while eating and drinking what I plan to eat during the race. It was fun and I want to do it again with a longer pool swim, a longer hike and then a lake swim. I like to think that by the second swim you might be feeling that all-day-aerobic fatigue, similar to what swimming all day might be like (but without having to stay in the pool all day). I guess I will find out how well this approach actually works... Hope to meet you at the race!
I'm with you dude, I'm only 54... swim all year and find 4x4k more than sufficient to maintain fitness and technique. I also do weight training which I find vital. Being on the sunny side of 50 is cool, the young guns feel the need to 'express themselves' whereas I enjoy the moment more. I'm planning on swimming with a flask when I'm 60.
so I'm wanting to do a double robben island, 15km, swim at the end of the year. I did the one way, 7.5km in Feb this year comfortably in 2h20. I'm trying to do around 12km a week at the moment mostly gym swims with the odd ocean swim.
So I've put together a 10 week training plan and I'd like input. I don't get to the ocean during the week hence the single open water swim each week.
week 1: total 16km - 3x4km pool swims plus 4km open water
week 2: total 10km - 2x3km pool swims plus 3km open water - rest week
week 3: total 17km - 2x4.5km plus 3km pool swims plus 5km open water
week 4: total 17km - 2x4.5km plus 3km pool swims plus 5km open water
week 5: total 18km - 3x4km pool swims plus 6km open water
week 6: total 9km - 3x 3km easy swims
week 7: total 19.5km - 3x4.5km pools swims plus 6km open water
week 8: total 20km - 2x5km pool swim plus 10km open water
week 9: total 20km - 2x5km pool swim plus 10km open water
week 10 total 10km - easy taper week
When you say a 4km pool swim, for example, what is that? Do you go and swim 4k non-stop at the pool, or is it 4k total distance broken into a number of different sets.
In my mind there is a big difference between a swim workout that uses a bunch of different sets and speeds vs. a 4k swim at a steady pace.
The overall program makes sense to me regarding a build up of distance combined with some rest weeks. Depending on your effort on the regular workout weeks, the rest week and taper might not do all that much for you. If you're cranking on the workouts, then the rest and taper will have impact. So that's one of the reasons that I'm curious about the content of the workouts.
I usually swim 4k straight through though I will be rejoining a local swimming club shortly for speed sessions.
Glenn, your workout suits me perfectly.
hi Curly. My pool sets are usually a combination of 1500-2000 straight and then a mix of speed work and different strokes. I try and mix them up. Maybe once every 3 weeks I'll feel like doing the 4km pool set straight. The rest weeks are partly because I get physically tried getting up early to swim and just to give the body a rest
@LakeBagger I dont think there are too many of us at EndWet so look forward to meeting you
Whatever the minimum is, I'm doing less.
Starting from zero kelvin.. and am now at just plain zero.
I have no idea where I was able to find the time/energy to train for some of the swims I've done.
Banking on experience now...
As a relative newbie (swimming for 8 years) and my marathons take from 6-10 hours to complete. I keep a base of 15k a week in the off season and then increase that over 6 months to have a couple of weeks peaking around 40k a week while never increasing more than 2k from the previous week. I don't usually do more than 4 hour training swims a couple of times in preparation, I'm a little odd in that. This weeks for me
Sounds depressing! What happened? I will say that for the past year I've found my biggest limiter is boredom. I still very much love my daily masters swims and the OW swims I can fit into my schedule. But the 10-20k pool swims? UGH. Sometimes I stand on the edge of the pool and dread getting in. I've had two swims this spring where I just quit mid-workout for no reason other than boredom. Started daydreaming about something else I wanted to do, climbed out and toweled off.
"Lights go out and I can't be saved
Tides that I tried to swim against
Have brought be down upon my knees
Oh I beg, I beg and plead..."
what distance do you call a marathon? 40km a week is more than I need
@glenn - technically its 10k or greater. For the last 3 years i've been training for swims from 15k to 35k. but i calculate this more about my expected time to complete than the actual distance .
@Spacemanspiff - first off , a "like" from you makes my day. I love your writing.
The past 5 years have been otherwise occupied with "life in my 50's". But, finally finding time and MAKING time to swim regularly. My pool swims are not that long, I'm just trying to be consistent w something. I hit a "oh dear I'm bored " moment a couple of weeks ago in the bay and had to remind myself how lucky I am to be able there. I'm hoping the changing scenery in WA MIMS will alleviate that issue. I'm more nervous about not finishing...
The not swimming wasn't depressing, it was everything else that was happening...
Our group is doing a 35 mile 6 person relay. Besides training like you are doing a 5 or 10K swim. Is there anything special about relay training. One hour non stop then 5 hr rest. Do we need to train like we are doing a 10k? Any help appreciated. Only 2 swimmers have open water experience.
My thought is that the ability to swim straight in open water will be more important than the amount of training. Having the 4 swimmers with no open water experience find a way to train in open water will be very helpful.
Good point.. I did not think of that but you are correct. We start open water training in May and our swim is in August.
Only endurance stuff? No speedwork to up your basic speed and make swimming as a whole a bit easier?
Variety is key, in my book.
The most important thing is making sure you all have open water experience before the day - you are all counting on each other! Other than that, you may find it helpful to practice getting out and getting back in. Particularly if your target swim is cold, it will be tougher to get back in each time. You don't necessarily need to wait five hours in between, but a second swim after a decent interval would be good practice. Lastly, find out how everybody does on a slow-moving boat! Seasickness is a significant factor for relay swims.
The pool sessions will be made up of speed work and distance, definitely
Erwin If you would send me a copy of your 10 week plan I will give it a look. Always looking for training plans to test out. Thanks