Diana Nyad Fact Check site

124

Comments

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber

    :-O She lies?!? Really? :-O

    Sorry, Niek. But, as our termite inspector just said, I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    edited October 2017

    Didn't realize that I hadn't said anything here about the "...GREAT Surprise" entries on the DN Fact Check Annex. Just posted the second one, Diana's GREAT Surprise, part 2. Part 1 is here. One more, and then we're done.

    Just found an article, "A Free Spirit Tries to Plunge Into History," from the 16 June 1978 Miami News. Some great stuff in it, including this from DN:

    I want to be known as the very best at something and have a reputation for that. I didn't say BE the best, because I've been that for eight years. I said BE KNOWN as the best. I feel that pressure very strong.

    DanSimonelli
  • curlycurly Issaquah, WASenior Member

    In the article, @danslos says:

    The passive voice, indispensable instrument of verbal evasion. Nyad plays it masterfully:

    ...and then he includes a picture of a woman playing a lyre. OMG, speaking of playing it masterfully, that is brilliant! A beautiful turn of phrase and illustration. Well done sir.

    DanSimonellidanslos
  • As a distraction with familiar parallels, the story of the 2 ladies being stranded on a yacht mid ocean for 5 months is being totally ripped apart on many ships/boats forums as totally unbelievable:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41772323

    Every aspect is questionable from taking 12 months food on a 2 month voyage, their dogs showing no muscle wastage despite being on a cramped yacht for 5 months, their unwillingness to try any sort of jury rig to make headway etc... full, full of contradictions.

    If you watch the interviews what comes through is the dominant female who is determined to make her point. This woman is writing the story the way she wants it to be told (to bring film/book contracts no doubt). No doubt her partner is the willing victim letting her friend manage the fraud.

    "We honestly believed that we would not have lasted another 24 hours in the current situation" --- After five months at sea they do not look to be on their last legs.

    Seems Lance has started a complete new industry and the media lap it up.

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    edited October 2017

    curly said:
    ...A beautiful turn of phrase and illustration. Well done sir.

    Thank you! I credit/blame an old high school friend for provoking that. Responding to one of my Facebook posts, she said that there ought to be a liar emoji. There is, but that got me thinking....

    wendyv34DanSimonelli
  • curlycurly Issaquah, WASenior Member

    I'm seeing a little bit of coverage about that sailing rescue incident and it occurs to me that this could be a fun opportunity to maybe tie the DN fraud into this one. I'm not a social media person. This site is about as involved I get with social media. But for those of you on FB and the like, it would be a great current event to comment on and draw attention to the DN fact check site.

  • I'd love to see a psychological comparison of Nyad, Lance Armstrong and this sailor woman, Jennifer Appel. I suspect the results would be scarily similar.

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber

    WarmWater said:
    I'd love to see a psychological comparison of Nyad, Lance Armstrong and this sailor woman, Jennifer Appel. I suspect the results would be scarily similar.

    That would be fascinating. While we're waiting for that, though, take a look at this, but substitute "Diana Nyad" wherever you see the name of the current president of the United States of America. Also, don't forget to change 1946 to 1949 and 34 to 31 in that first sentence, et voilá!

  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member

    "We would've been dead in 24 hours"

    They lasted 5months, but another 24hrs would've done them in?!

    "We didn't take toothbrushes"
    (For a planned 18 day trip)???

    Hyperbole, or just kinda gross? ;)

  • lakespraylakespray Senior Member

    The psychology of cheating especially among amateur athletes is worth exploring. For Armstrong and Nyad there was clearly a monetary award, maybe story rights for Appel. But what about the amateurs like Julie Miller of Ironman Tri's
    and others. Much talk in USMS pool racing around overweight middle aged men such as myself, showing up to a meet a year later trim/cut and killing it in the pool. Was it one too many Low T advertisements? Are some of us that vain, that narcissistic? Sad really.

    curly
  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member

    danslos said:
    That would be fascinating. While we're waiting for that, though, take a look at this, but substitute "Diana Nyad" wherever you see the name of the current president of the United States of America. Also, don't forget to change 1946 to 1949 and 34 to 31 in that first sentence, et voilá!

    There it is. Do we have to turn this into politics, too? Don't we have enough of that in our everyday life? I'm not even in the states now with free/easy access to TV and I have politics thrust into every facet of my life enough. Why do we have to bring it into this, too? Can't we just let this thread be about DN?

    Francoflystorms

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber

    The article is a great description of Nyad, and I can't reference the article without alluding to the politically involved person it happens to be about.

    I don't think that any discussion can be about a single thing, much as I might like it to be. Other things have crept in above, e.g. Julie Miller, Lance Armstrong, those two women lost at sea, ancient stringed instruments, etc. Mentioning Armstrong doesn't make the discussion about cycling. Bringing in Armstrong (or the subject of the article I mentioned) just gives us another way to look at DN.

    evmoKatieBunphodgeszohoDanSimonelli
  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    edited November 2017

    "Diana's GREAT Surprise, part 3" is up. Can't say I'm unhappy about seeing the hind end of Nyad's 2011 post, for the time being anyway. A few questions remain, but it's time to move on.

    KatieBunDanSimonelli
  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member

    danslos said:
    The article is a great description of Nyad, and I can't reference the article without alluding to the politically involved person it happens to be about.

    I don't think that any discussion can be about a single thing, much as I might like it to be. Other things have crept in above, e.g. Julie Miller, Lance Armstrong, those two women lost at sea, ancient stringed instruments, etc. Mentioning Armstrong doesn't make the discussion about cycling. Bringing in Armstrong (or the subject of the article I mentioned) just gives us another way to look at DN.

    No one yet has linked Armstrong to Obama (Prez when Armstrong was outted). DN is bad enough we don't need to bring T into it. Just sayin'...

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • BridgetBridget New York StateMember
    edited November 2017

    danslos said: Bringing in Armstrong (or the subject of the article I mentioned) just gives us another way to look at DN.

    Armstrong did not value his actual ability, for whatever reason. A cautionary tale.
    Nyad is so open about her swims that she DNF, and does not disguise so many of the questionable things she did in the course of her swim. Her drama of locking away the records forever is so bizarre.

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    edited November 2017

    Bridget said:
    Armstrong did not value his actual ability, for whatever reason....

    Neither Armstrong nor Nyad valued their actual ability. Early Armstrong was a fine cyclist, though not close to the calibre necessary to win the Tour de France. Nyad was a decent swimmer, but not close to the calibre necessary to swim from Cuba to Florida. Neither Nyad nor Armstrong could bear, however, to be seen as anything other than the best, so both found underhanded ways to get there.

    Nyad is so open about her swims that she DNF....

    She is open--when it suits her. She loves to dwell on her first four Cuba-Florida attempts, because she was able to Find a Way on #5. On the other hand, Nyad pretends that the English Channel double-crossing attempts never happened; discussing them would damage her self- and public- images as a paragon of perseverance. I've cued up a TED talk to where she does both at once, i.e. allude to a Cuba DNF and conspicuously ignore the EC. Enjoy! Diana Nyad at TEDMed 2011.

    DanSimonelli
  • curlycurly Issaquah, WASenior Member

    This is a hijacking and should probably be split off from the real meat of the matter, but.... we did have a brief discussion of the two women sailing a boat and the idea that it was likely not true. I stumbled across this very funny takedown by someone who appears to know what they are talking about. Caution, plenty of sailor language if you know what I mean...

    https://unreasonablydangerousonionrings.com/2017/10/31/19-reasons-this-survival-story-smells-fishy/

    DanSimonelliMoColakespraydanslos
  • evmoevmo SydneyAdmin
    edited November 2017

    Re: NYT article by DN on sexual abuse.

    The ayes have it. Link to article and subsequent replies have been deleted.

    The thread topic concerns questionable claims Diana Nyad has made about her swimming achievements. Especially in the current climate, let's keep the focus on that. It can only undermine the cause of fact-checking her swimming-related claims to muddy the waters with such a sensitive and volatile subject.

    Just a suggestion, the relevant issue in that article would seem to be this part:


    Selection_060

    KarenTStephenDanSimonellidanslosswimrn62
  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member
    edited November 2017

    :D

  • MoCoMoCo Worcester, MASenior Member

    I love you people.

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    edited November 2017

    As of this morning, the domain names diananyadfactcheck.com and nyadfactcheck.com are good through December, 2026. I'll take stock then and see where we stand ;) . Thanks again to all who contributed to the renewal fund and to everyone who continues to support the endeavor.

    I'm considering making a big change on the site, i.e. moving Cuba-Florida to the top. It now starts with Manhattan because it's the easiest lie to demonstrate. But it's really all about the Florida Strait. Any thoughts/opinions?

    lakespraypavlicovgregocloneswimmer
  • Somehow I am not in favor of sticking pieces of paper in a library book to protest the content.

    Libraries have stood up for the civil rights of ordinary Americans (all of us) against the invasion of privacy of the three-letter agencies.

    They don't have much money.

    They, not you, will get the blowback from annoyed patrons.

    Maybe, to avoid the hassle of checking not only this book but all books for pieces of paper, they will be forced for practical reasons to take the book out of circulation, a type of censorship they didn't sign up for.

    Not sure this is the best way to direct attention to a website countering what the book author writes.

    KarenTJaimieflystormsloneswimmer
  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member
    edited November 2017

    danslos said:

    I'm considering making a big change on the site, i.e. moving Cuba-Florida to the top. It now starts with Manhattan because it's the easiest lie to demonstrate. But it's really all about the Florida Strait. Any thoughts/opinions?

    I think you should keep Manhattan as is.
    It's perfectly egregious and sets up all else.

    It's not "really all about the FL Strait"...it's about so much more that's at the core of all this.

    danslos
  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    edited November 2017

    I'll look into that, Niek.

    And speaking of Manhattan.... I just finished reading David Walsh's SEVEN DEADLY SINS: MY PURSUIT OF LANCE ARMSTRONG. Walsh was Armstrong's "little troll," and one of the main journalists responsible for getting the goods on L.A. Walsh's book is great for learning how low a human being will stoop for his or her own aggrandizement.

    It got me to thinking about the timing of Nyad's "I was the first woman around Manhattan" claim. I have her first saying that in 2007. Would Nyad be crass enough to purposefully wait until the six women who preceded her were dead, to put it bluntly, then start making her claim? (You don't need to answer that.)

    Guess what I found? Diane Struble, the sixth woman to circle the island and the last of the six to pass away, died in 2006.

    DanSimonelli
  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member

    >
    "Story Teller"

    IMG_5659
    =))

    ssthomas
  • paulmpaulm Senior Member

    Which World Championship did Nyad win ?????

    DanSimonelli
  • evmoevmo SydneyAdmin
    edited November 2017

    paulm said:
    Which World Championship did Nyad win ?????

    Actually I'm pretty sure she could produce a trophy or plaque from WPMSF or whatever organization existed in the early 70s, declaring her a world champion.

    The history of marathon swimming is murky.

    Even now we have events declaring themselves "world championships."

    Diana did some legit swims in her early 20s, I don't think it helps anything to deny that (even considering Morty's claims that she held on the boat in 1975), and it's not mutually exclusive from her lying/exaggerating about other things.

    rlmDanSimonellidanslos
  • KatieBunKatieBun CornwallSenior Member

    Blimey. It takes some ego to decide for yourself that you're an inspiration to many! :-O

    ssthomasdanslos
  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    edited November 2017

    @paulm @KatieBun @niek:

    Which World Championship did Nyad win ?????

    1974 World Professional Marathon Swimming--she won on points. See The Greatest....

    It takes some ego to decide for yourself that you're an inspiration to many!

    Don't forget humble too!

    KatieBun
  • BridgetBridget New York StateMember

    Niek said:

    Bridget said:
    Nyad is so open about her swims that she DNF, and does not disguise so many of the questionable things she did in the course of her swim.

    I strongly disagree.

    Hi Niek-- please understand the level of emphasis I placed on "so many" in my statement. What I must not have conveyed was the fact that as I read her book, I just shook my head so often as she blithely described practices that were clearly not legal by commonly accepted open water tradition. Based on her own words, her final effort was called into question. That was my focus as I wrote my entry. Even if, as @danslos said, she "is open--when it suits her" she was (at least in her book Find A Way) open enough to undermine herself completely. It was bizarre. There is clearly evidence that she did not follow protocol, and her locking away of records certainly doesn't give her any credibility. What I found interesting about her book is that, in light of her own words, her final effort was not a legal solo swim.

    Also, her own words demonstrated such hideously poor sportsmanship!

    What you may find interesting, or not, is that I read her book prior to finding this page and the way she is seen and the evidence presented in the Fact Check. The Fact Check information, for me, only reinforced what I concluded from reading her book. (Trust me, I've had a chaotic few years, and somehow missed most of the controversy surrounding her swim, but that also illustrates how strongly her own words work against her.) I'm glad to have found the Fact Check, more because it brought Walter Poenisch to light-- how could anyone NOT celebrate him?

    My perspective or expression of my impressions on Nyad may seem naive or offensive, but I hope not. This thread has been active for quite some time and you have all expressed your outrage and indignation- rightly so. How we got to them doesn't put our conclusions at odds.

    As a person who works with seniors (some swimmers, some not), I find it sad that she was unable to see the value of her Cuba DNFs as anything more than the groundwork for her presentation of her last effort. She may well believe her own hype by this point, and it doesn't really matter-- because whatever she could have done wasn't valued enough. And as someone who has encouraged people for years to celebrate their personal best, to see someone discount her own in favor of some twisted fiction is just sad. A waste.

    danslosDanSimonelli
  • loneswimmerloneswimmer IrelandCharter Member
    edited November 2017

    Admin comment:

    This thread is temporarily locked.

    I feel like putting my head in my hands at times, and not just because of Nyad. I have written repeatedly previously about how some of the comments look for the sport and MSF from a distance.

    This thread is about @Danlos Nyad fact check site. But once again when Nyad is discussed it is veering off into something else, this time trolling libraries and book readers.

    So I'm giving notice specifically to @vegasdood @curly @lakespray @niek that I will remove the relevant comments in 72 hours. (Monday 20th). If requested I will put them into a new separate thread.

    I don't delete stuff (non-spam) usually without discussion or notification. Until then I have locked the thread to further comment. Once I reopen the thread, please stick to the subject.

    But my suggestion or request to those interested is if you genuinely want to carry out this campaign, (and if you don't think or care about how it looks for the sport or the forum or specifically MSF), go ahead and start a different thread and put your comments on that thread and it will left alone regardless of what I think except to once again state my concerns below.

    *

    I reject the library campaign. I do not support it as MSF co-founder. It is detrimental for the forum, detrimental for MSF, counterproductive to the sport, and I disassociate myself as one of the MSF team from it.

    I will repeat that I personally want MSF to be seen as productive and positive for the sport and not be perceived as entirely driven by a negative obsession.

    Because MSF IS positive and productive and has already had a big impact on the sport. I know we as a sport have a problem with frauds. I think we have to talk about that. I understand that a community is partially formed by the common understanding of what it is against but similarly community must always be about what it is for and be more positive and welcoming than negative and rejecting.

    evmoSara_WolfKarl_Kingeryrosemarymintcurlybluemermaid9timsrootvegasdoodJaimieKarenTZoeSadlermalinakaJSwimdanswimsKatieBunjbsj9swimKate_AlexanderStephenIronMikeMoCodavid_barraemkhowleyworthyadvisor

    loneswimmer.com

  • curlycurly Issaquah, WASenior Member

    As one of the miscreants called out on the above post, I'd like to offer an apology for my part in the proposed anarchy. At the time I thought it was a pretty funny idea, but it was obviously a moment where my mouth got going before the brain was fully engaged. I fully agree with the move to remove the offending posts. I usually feel I'm a pretty positive guy and I try to be that way on this forum. As @loneswimmer points out, we should not be driven by a negative obsession. Again, my apologies for my part in this, I will do wind sprints at the end of practice today...

    loneswimmerevmojbsJaimieDanSimonelli
  • loneswimmerloneswimmer IrelandCharter Member
    edited November 2017

    This thread is obviously reopened. Please keep on topic.

    One charter forum member has been permanently removed. This a first for the forum, and important enough that I am mentioning it.

    We are implementing a new forum rule:

    New posts on Diana Nyad will not be allowed without prior approval of the admins. Please confine discussion of the Cheat to existing discussions such as this or the other epic threads.

    evmodavid_barrarosemarymint

    loneswimmer.com

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber

    The Diana Nyad Fact Check Investigations Unit has been attempting to track down descendants of the six women who swam around Manhattan before Nyad did. I recently reached Denis DuNann, a son of Lillian Garrick, the 4th woman to swim around the island. (Denis gave me permission to use his name.)

    After I explained the situation to him, Denis wrote--and I'm quoting this exactly because it was so wonderful--

    There is a terrific film online when the swim around Manhattan started. I think it was 1929. That will answer any questions!

    He obviously didn't know Diana, though he does now.

    The film Denis mentions is actually two brief compilations of outtakes. The outtakes come from footage of the 1930 race around Manhattan. It is terrific for innumerable reasons, many of which will be different for each person who watches. Here are some of the things I found terrific:

    1. Swim around Manhattan Island--outtakes #1
      ~:44, Emmi Busse (I think) in the staging area, wearing high heels.
      ~2:00 A rare look at two of the three women who preceeded Nyad: from left to right, Anne Benoit, Emmi Busse (believe that she didn't finish), and Lillian Garrick. I love hearing Benoit ribbing the swimmer next to her: "What have you got on you, mayonnaise? Didja' get your hair cut special?"

    2. Swim around Manhattan Island--outtakes #2
      ~9:00 -- Close-up on Shields, the winner. He has a beautiful, smooth, loping stroke.

    evmoDanSimonelliloneswimmer
  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    edited November 2017

    I have two questions that I'd like your help with:

    First, who do you think was the best marathon swimmer of the seventies?
    One of the bases of Nyad's claim to marathon swimming fame is her frequent protestation that she was the best marathon swimmer of the 1970s. She wasn't, of course, and I addressed this in World's Greatest. I'd like to take it further, though, and name more names.

    So who do you think was the greatest marathon swimmer of that decade or of any of those years? I mention a few possibilities in the World's Greatest footnote, but I'd like to hear other names (ideally with supporting evidence).

    I'm partial to Penny, for 1978 at least, because her EC record stood for 16 years overall and 28 years for women. The only EC swimmer who held a record longer than that, if my calculations are correct, was Matthew Webb.

    Second, what would you like to hear from Diana Nyad?
    A few weeks before I made the Fact Check public, I attempted to alert Nyad and a couple of her supporters, and her publicity people. Only one person responded, and he asked what I hoped to get out of the site. I hemmed and hawed because I hadn't thought about it beyond...

    • wanting to show the general who Diana Nyad really is and...
    • wanting to figure out what really happened in the Florida Straits in 2013.
      A few days ago, someone asked me the same question. I gave essentially the same answer.

    But what if things started to turn around and people began questioning Nyad? What specifically would you want? Here is my Hannukah/Christmas list:

    1. Admission that she's the 7th woman to swim around Manhattan, along with an apology to the families of the women who she has attempted to erase from that part of swimming history.
    2. Admission that she did NOT swim in the Olympic Trials, along with an apology to Lake Forest University for lying in her commencement address.
    3. Admission that she did not swim from Cuba to Florida under her own power, along with an explanation of how she carried out the fraud.

    All apologies to be genuine, unlike the lame one she wrote to Walter Poenisch after the court forced her to retract her slander.

    I'd appreciate hearing what you would add. If you have responses you'd prefer not to air publicly, please send me a message or email me at swim@cruzatte.com.

    DanSimonelliloneswimmer
  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber

    New post to post to the Annex regarding Nyad's 30-years-a-non-swimmer claim (with thanks to @DanSimonelli ). See No Escape!.

    DanSimonelli
  • emkhowleyemkhowley Boston, MACharter Member

    danslos said:
    I have two questions that I'd like your help with:

    First, who do you think was the best marathon swimmer of the seventies?
    One of the bases of Nyad's claim to marathon swimming fame is her frequent protestation that she was the best marathon swimmer of the 1970s. She wasn't, of course, and I addressed this in World's Greatest. I'd like to take it further, though, and name more names.

    So who do you think was the greatest marathon swimmer of that decade or of any of those years? I mention a few possibilities in the World's Greatest footnote, but I'd like to hear other names (ideally with supporting evidence).

    Using the term "greatest" is always a fraught prospect, given that there are many ways to define greatness. Are we talking speed? Pioneering? Ingenuity? Overall, long-term success? Overcoming obstacles such as age or illness? I think it's safe to say DN is greatest at overshadowing other great swimmers. But for actual swimming prowess, I submit the following for consideration.

    The 1970s were a rich moment in marathon swimming, as the World Professional Marathon Swimming Federation got going, offering long-distance races around the world. This was the precursor to the FINA pro circuit that's sort of still in existence today. (cough wetsuits now allowed cough) Back then, though, it offered a framework within which several stars were able to shine.

    Stella Taylor and Judith De Nijs were early 1970s stars on that circuit. Judith had been a big deal in the 1960s, but was ranked number 1 in the world in 1970. Stella Taylor earned the Greta Andersen award for most impressive newbie that same year.

    Penny Lee Dean also made her mark on the WPMSF circuit in the '70s, besting the field by more than 1,000 points one year. But she's probably better known for her utter speed dominance in Channel swimming. Her overall record for fastest Catalina Channel crossing, set in 1976, still stands. Her CMC double record of 20:03 set in 1977 still stands. She also set an unbelievably fast EC record of 7 hours 40 minutes in 1979. (She broke the previous record by more than an hour.) She then went on to coach the US National Open Water Team, and under her tutelage, Chad Hundeby lowered the record to 7:17 in 1995.

    On the amateur side, Cindy Nicholas jumps to mind. In 1977, she became the first woman to complete a two-way English Channel, and lowered the record for the double by 10 hours. Let that sink in for a moment. Not only did she swim a double in a staggeringly fast 19 hours 55 minutes (what it takes a fair few swimmers to complete just one leg) but that time was 10 hours and 5 minutes faster than the previous double record. Overall, she had 19 crossings to her name, 5 double crossings (the most of any swimmer to date, though I think Chloe is probably coming for that record soon), and in 1977 won the Bobbie Rosenfeld Award, an annual honor bestowed on Canada's female athlete of the year as determined by the Canadian Press.

    Also, let's not forget that the 1970s was the decade when the incomparable Lynne Cox launched her incredible career. She starts with the Catalina Channel in 1971 at age 14. (I don't know what you were doing when you were 14, but I was definitely not swimming channels at that age. It was about all I could do to handle the 2-hour long-course club workouts I had every morning at that tender age, and believe me when I say, I thought surviving through those practices made me a badass. Ha.) She then broke the EC record in 1972. She felled the EC record again in 1973. In 1974, she took part in a Nile River swim while terribly ill with a waterborne illness. She rallied later that year and set a Catalina Channel record. In 1975, she became the first woman to swim the Cook Strait in harrowing conditions and to the delight of the New Zealand nation. I could go on, but you can see the timeline of her swims here. Note how they get progressively colder and more pioneering the deeper she gets into the decade. And how remarkably long her career has been--you can't confine her greatness to a single decade! Her books actually do inspire people, rather than just claiming to do so.

    Dan, you didn't specify whether this list should be limited solely to female swimmers, so I'm going to list just two of the men who were in their prime in the 1970s. Ever hear of a guy called Kevin Murphy? Well, the 1970s was a great swimming decade for him. He came charging right out of the gate in 1970 with a double English Channel swim, becoming only the third person to complete it. In 1971, he became the first person to swim around the Isle of Wight. He also swam the North Channel that year, one of two crossings he made there. In '75, he swam for more than 52 hours enroute to a triple crossing of the EC, but was pulled halfway home on the third leg. In 1976, he swam the length of Loch Ness. (If you want to feel lazy, have a look at his LongSwimsDB entry. Man, he was a busy swimmer.) His "rival" Des Renford also had a great decade in the 1970s. From 1975 until 1979 he held the title of King of the Channel. The pair enjoyed a bit of movie-making fun with the 1977 film The Great Duel. The film opens with the bold statement that "Murphy is the greatest endurance swimmer the world has ever known." Redford eventually swam 19 EC crossings on 19 attempts. He also completed a slew of great swims in other parts of the world.

    And rumor has it you yourself did some remarkable stuff in the 1970s, @danslos, including a speedy double Catalina in 1978.

    So as you can see, there are quite a few prime candidates for the appellation of "greatest" swimmer of the 1970s. If I had to choose just one for the whole decade, I couldn't.

    Second, what would you like to hear from Diana Nyad?

    I'd be happy to never hear from or of her again, frankly. Just go away already.

    SologregocevmoStephenjendutlakespraydanslosIronMikessthomasrlmKarl_KingeryDanSimonellij9swimslknightMoCojbs

    Stop me if you've heard this one...
    A grasshopper walks into a bar...
    https://elainekhowley.com/

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    edited November 2017

    @emkhowley
    I can't thank you enough for your thoughtful response. It was exactly what I was looking for. So, #1, I'm going with myself as the best swimmer of the 70s; and, #2, the hope that Diana will just go away.

    I'm afraid, though, that the latter isn't going to happen (though I'd be ecstatic if it did) and the former wouldn't be true. Very kind of you, however, to include me.

    Nyad never specifies gender in her best-of pronouncements, so I intentionally left it open. I will happily include Kevin and Des in the list.

    emkhowleyssthomasDanSimonelli
  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber

    @emkhowley

    Actually, "thoughtful" doesn't get close to describing your list. I just skimmed it before sending my last message. After reading it more closely, I'm more inclined to call it encyclopedic. I thought I knew some of those people pretty well. Clearly, though, I wasn't able to see the kelp forest for the fronds. This is going to be a huge help!

    emkhowleyssthomasDanSimonellislknight
  • emkhowleyemkhowley Boston, MACharter Member

    Happy to help, @danslos! I'll keep noodling on it, and as I think of others, I'll be sure to share. I'd be willing to bet there's at least 4 more women I've overlooked and a half dozen men. This is the beauty of marathon swimming: it's a vast galaxy of uniquely impressive stars, each with their own claim to greatness.

    ssthomasdanslosDanSimonelli

    Stop me if you've heard this one...
    A grasshopper walks into a bar...
    https://elainekhowley.com/

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber

    With a big boost from @emkhowley , there's a new post on the Diana Nyad Fact Check Annex: "Questioning Diana's Decade of Dominance."

    I've covered this some on the main site, specifically in Nyad's Promotional Materials and World's Greatest. But it needed a closer look. And looking at it again gave me an excuse to write more about some legitimately amazing swimmers.

    DanSimonelliemkhowleyssthomaspavlicov
  • edited December 2017

    The above new section highlights yet again that Nyad tells mistruths and is ruthlessly efficient in debasing other swimmers achievements, but gets full marks for informing the reader of some of the wonderful swimmers who graced the sport in the 70's so a great well done and thanks to @emkhowley and @danslos.

    Has it occurred to you that once Nyad is too old to continue the self promotion (she's 64) that her quest will simply drift away and what will survive, will be FACTS. ie a list of race winners year by year and no where will Nyad's name feature - so history will disregard fake claims and rely on fact.

    I get the impression her enjoyment comes from hearing herself tell everyone she's the best as from what I see, no one else even now, affords her that accolade so once she's gone... the assault on the integrity of the sport will be over.

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    edited December 2017

    @WarmWater said:
    Has it occurred to you that once Nyad is too old to continue the self promotion (she's 64) that her quest will simply drift away and what will survive, will be FACTS....

    Yes, that has occurred to me. It's a delight to contemplate. And, since she's actually 68 now (she was 64 when she did whatever she did in the Florida Strait), things will happen a bit sooner, thank goodness.

    But I don't see Nyad giving up self-promotion until she gives up the ghost. Not to mention that her books, articles, interviews, etc., will always be around to present her facts unless we disprove them. And that Cuba-Florida crossing will remain part of the record unless we figure out what really happened.

    And if we counter her now, maybe we'll discourage others from attempting the same sorts of shenanigans.

    I would much rather that, as per @emkhowley, Ms. Nyad would just go away. But that's not in the cards for the time being.

    DanSimonelli
  • KarenTKarenT Charter Member

    It is spectacularly tasteless to be anticipating the demise of a woman with such relish.

    heartrosemarymint
  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member
    edited December 2017

    KarenT said:
    It is spectacularly tasteless to be anticipating the demise of a woman with such relish.

    "Spectacularly"?? Or just plain tasteless.

    I've quoted it before and I'm likely to quote again:

    "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic".

    • JFK

    How to slay a dragon...?

  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber

    KarenT said:
    It is spectacularly tasteless to be anticipating the demise of a woman with such relish.

    Karen, I apologize for being so flippant about that. I am not rooting for Nyad's personal demise. I am rooting for the demise of her self-promotion. I can see how the way I said it--i.e. that the two would probably only happen at the same time--makes it seem like I wanted the former.

    I'd actually love for her to live a long and healthy life. That would give us plenty of time to get this all cleared up.

    DanSimonelliloneswimmersuziedods
  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber

    I recently added a new post to the annex, "Diana Decides to Forget Half of Her Life." (No, I did not steal that headline from the Onion.) This new post supersedes the previous one because the three decades that Diana mislaid subsume the seventies. ;)


    I have some good news and some bad news. First, the good news: you can subscribe to the Wall Street Journal right now at the rate of US$1 for two months. (I'm not sure how this offer works outside of the US.)

    For a long time, I'd wanted to get my hands on this article about DN's post-swim news conference. This deal finally made it possible.

    And now for the bad news. While poking around the WSJ archives, I came across a glowing review of FIND A WAY. The review's author: Michael Shermer, publisher of Skeptic Magazine. I can't decide what's worse: that DN says she forgot 30 years and no one questions her; or that skeptic-in-chief Michael Shermer didn't question Nyad at all, including her claim that she's "the greatest long-distance swimmer in the history of the sport."

    evmopavlicovDanSimonellipaulm
  • evmoevmo SydneyAdmin
    edited December 2017

    All existing Nyad-related discussions have been closed, and new ones will be deleted without prior approval by the admins.

    You can browse the archives here:
    http://marathonswimmers.org/forum/discussions/tagged/diana-nyad

    Sincere gratitude to @danslos for the persistent, wide-ranging, and high-quality research on the many lies, exaggerations, and misleading statements scattered throughout DN's 40 years in this sport. Dan, you've done a valuable service to the community, which is additive and complementary to the efforts of many Forum members back in September 2013.

    The underlying motivation has been to preserve the integrity of the sport we love, and we've done this effectively, considering the celebrity and media power of the person we've been pushing back against.

    But at this point, for the long-term health of the community, it's time to move on. This is the unanimous feeling of the MSF admin team, and evidently many Forum members. To everyone who responded positively to Karen's proposal - some of whom rarely participate here - we hope this will encourage you to start new discussions, comment on existing topics, and generally help move this community forward.

    In the meantime, anyone interested in this topic should follow Dan's Fact Check Annex blog, proudly hosted by MSF. I will be!

    http://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/nyadfactcheck

    Thank you.

    thelittlemerwookieMpolemkhowleyJSwimKate_AlexanderDanSimonelliKarenTDoc2dockSolodavid_barrasaraheismannmalinakaKatieBunJanetcaburkekejoycerlmloneswimmerrosemarymintworthyadvisor
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