GPS watches for tracking distance and time of open water swims
nvr2late
Central VirginiaCharter Member
I would like to invest in a Garmin to track my open water swims. There are so many models, I thought that I would open this thread to see which one is favored by forum members. Thank you for your input.
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http://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/ironmike
http://robaquatics.com
I wish I had a 910xt. I use a Garmin 205 for open water. It's not supposed to be waterproof, but I haven't had a problem. I put on a silicone cap, then my goggles. I anchor the Garmin straps under my goggle straps, buttons pointing up. Then I cover the whole thing with a latex cap. I turn the Garmin on before I strap it on. I hit start when I start, and I hit lap before and after every feed. If you don't hit lap, it's very difficult to get split information.
When you're finished swimming, you have to turn the Garmin off. If you just hit stop, the timer stops, but it maps your route home.
It takes some practice to get used to hitting the buttons while it's on your head. Aside from the waterproof issue, wearing on your head captures a more accurate route.
www.WaterGirl.co
AZ Open Water Swimming on Facebook
For lap swimming I use a Swimsense. FINIS replaced it after about a year when the digital display started flickering. On both the replacement and the original, I've had problems docking with the computer. Agree with others that the quality of construction on the Garmins is higher... though I've heard from some tri friends that the Swimsense is more accurate at stroke counts & lap counts, compared to the 910xt. That could change with future firmware upgrades...
http://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/ironmike
I never had one replaced for the docking issue. I could always get around that by pressing it in very firmly and holding all four corners until it showed up. The replacements have been for more serious issues. They start to leak a little, and then they freeze up while you're swimming. On my last one, the auto pause feature didn't work right.
www.WaterGirl.co
AZ Open Water Swimming on Facebook
With the Garmin on the head you can set the time and distance alert it to 'Buzz'. ie 500m and 15minutes with different buzzes, kinda fun. Be warned when i first wore it and it Buzzed i jumped out of my skin, - one hell of a fright. Have tried to get the HR strap to pick up, alas failed. Side benefit of GPS tracking is checking out how direct you are swimming. helped me on that front. all in all a winner
http://www.jenschumacher.org
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
We bought a new computer (Dell) which has Windows 8. I've plugged the thumb drive (ANT+) into a USB 2.0 port (computer said not to plug it into a 3.0). No matter what I do, it cannot find my device.
I've restarted several times. I've also checked and the drivers are all updated.
Ideas?
http://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/ironmike
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
http://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/ironmike
Meaning you can put the device in a USB 3.0 slot despite what your pc tells you.
Get the latest software for your device http://www.garmin.com/uk/support/
http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
http://blogs.marathonswimmers.org/ironmike
It can take a few minutes to find a signal, so turn it on when you start getting undressed. It's better than hopping around at the waters edge in the freezing cold waiting for the LED to go green.
I would recommend it.
http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
I rarely use it in the pool - pretty much only when I'm in a 25y pool without an easily readable clock and I'm planning to swim something longish (i.e. where I'm at risk of losing the lap count in my head). I find it will occasionally miss a lap, but that's easy to spot when looking at the activity later. The stroke identification leaves something to be desired. It gets freestyle right, but almost always thinks my butterfly is freestyle, and sometimes confuses breaststroke and backstroke. This could be due to poor form on my part, although I'm confident my strokes are at the very least legal. But Stroke ID is more of a gee-whiz feature to me. I know what stroke I did and will get it right when I enter my workout in my spreadsheet.
Are there any new trackers that are being used successfully? Seems like the Finis doesn't exist any more. I don't know much about the Garmins. I've been using iPhone with Nike Plus. Phone in Ziplock, in a swim buoy. It is fairly OK. I've used it for seven swims. It failed to record my two best swims. I had two days of smooth surface and I was moving right along and I got nothing. The other days were rough going and it recorded those honestly. One swim wasn't recorded at all and one swim had the time and distance way off although it showed the track completely. It's like the fish that got away... "I'm telling you I was moving. Probably 10 minute miles..." ;)
I'm still liking my Garmin Forerunner 735XT that I got for Father's Day. Does open-water swimming and pool swimming. Not as heavy, bulky, or expensive as the Garmin fēnix 3 HR, but almost as capable. The fenix has longer battery life (if you're a slow Ironman) and an altimeter, but if you're in to biking, the 735XT is already capable of integrating with the cool Varia radar biking gear. None of this is really necessary, of course, and I'm kind of a purist in eschewing electronics over good old-fashioned hard work and fitness, but if you want a good Garmin for open-water and pool swimming, definitely take a look at the new Forerunner 735XT.
I recently got a Suunto Ambit3, and so far I absolutely love it. It cost me $250 when I found it on sale at Clever Training online. I had a finis tracker that just wasn't doing it for me.
It keeps track of distance, stroke rate, and pace really well in open water. The battery life is billed at 10 hours with a decent sample rate, though I haven't tested it out that long yet. There are two swimming modes, one for open water and another for pool swimming - it detects when you turn around and keeps a lap count. There's an interval feature, too - you can program in a workout if you care to go through the work ahead of time. It's also swimming HR-compatible - which I don't think Garmin has mastered yet. One of the more expensive Suunto watches can also do water temperature which is nice to have.
One downside if you're a triathlete is that it's not ANT-compatible, it's bluetooth. So if you have all ANT sensors for your bike you'd have to invest in new ones. I find that the bluetooth makes for an easier upload to the phone app, and then to the website. I also like the website display, it'll make a little movie of where you've gone.
So far I've used it only in open water, and on some long walks through Boston when I turned it on just for kicks. This is what the website version looks like: http://www.movescount.com/moves/move112027172
Also they come in fun colors, and who doesn't love fun colors?
So, here's food for thought...distances are measured point to point. When one uses a garmin or other type of device, that device measures every little bit.. the zig to the left and the zag to the right. Oddly enough some also also measure elevation, so if one is in lumpy conditions you can gain and lose elevation! This means that while the distance is 10.2K ( or what have you) your garmin shows you swam 11.5(eg). But you didn't! You swam 10.2, you just zigged and zagged enough to show 11.5. As an avowed luddite( barring email and fb) I count time in the water (using my timex ironman watch) and point to point distances. In the pool, I count distance from the workout I do , which is in scy or long course meters. And i write those distances in pencil on an MSF calendar. :)
Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com
Suzie you're totally right about it adding every little zig and some of the metrics available now are waaaaay too much information!
Most of it for me comes down to my brain... I'm really analytical and also lived a stint as a triathlete where everything is numbers and metrics and splits and HR and aaaaagh. I found that all horribly overwhelming after a time, part of why I've retreated back to the water :)
Metrics aside, there are a couple reasons I like having a GPS. I like seeing exactly where I've been and how closely I actually followed the line I thought I was following. When I'm swimming into the sun in the evening I can see how horribly off my line I've gone, which is mostly just for fun... but when swimming in places with significant tides the point-to point can vary. If I follow the curve of the bay at low tide, I swim significantly less distance than if I follow it at high tide (it's a pretty shallow area). If I swim the same route multiple days, I still like to be able to correlate how I felt with how far or how fast I was going.
I've heard triathletes whine before about their Garmin measuring a 5K as 3.3 miles. I think if it's taken that seriously it's overkill... but it can be a nice training tool when used for fun :)
While I prefer a spreadsheet to the paper log method (excel can convert the units for you, making everything on a consistent unit basis, and yes, I am an engineer, why do you ask?), but other than that, I agree. If I swim extra because I can't swim in a straight line, or count laps correctly, that's on me.
Thanks for the info on the Garmin and the Ambit. I will look into those. Also, a strange thing happened yesterday. I was using my iPhone in a bag again. This time it gave me a really good track and accurate distance and time. I was thinking back to the days where it was messed up and trying to figure out what was different. On the bad days, it was really overcast, low clouds etc. Yesterday it was pretty clear sky. I don't know much about GPS and satellites, but I'm wondering if that could be the difference. Would GPS devices work better than a iPhone GPS? Any scientists here?
Plus in response to the concerns regarding the over technicalization of this pure sport. I've been interested in the tracking because like some of the other responders here, I'm trying to figure how straight I'm going. Plus I'm interested to see if my perceived effort matches my measured effort. (And yes, I check the pace clock in a pool, so I guess old habits die hard...)
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System
The Global Positioning System (GPS) is a space-based navigation system that provides location and time information in all weather conditions, anywhere on or near the Earth where there is an unobstructed line of sight to four or more GPS satellites.
source: http://gpsinformation.net/gpsclouds.htm
Cloud, Rain, Snow, weather in general does NOT attenuate the GPS signals enough to effect accuracy.
http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
I have the Suunto Ambit -- the one that tracks temperature. The main point of it to me is to see how straight (or not) I am swimming and get some information about the swim, particularly in terms of temperature, stroke rate, and pace. The temperature is particularly useful, since it gives measurements throughout the swim.
More GPS foolishness from me. I got sick of towing my phone in a bag and once I learned how far my route was, it was kind of pointless. I swim near a swim area and there are bouys, so that's how I marked my distances. At the end of summer they took out the bouys, so I'm swimming a modified course. I wanted to re figure my distances so I thought I'd try out a different app called mapmyrun. It's ok and way more technical than I really want, but it's fun to play around with.
So here's the weird part. I'm getting a consistent elevation change from one end of the course to the other. It's about 8' difference over a quarter mile. The thing that is funny is that I've always felt that one direction is downhill. I've always attributed that to prevailing wind and possible current. But this elevation data really has got me puzzled. Is it possible that water piles up in one area more than another? This is a lake with a creek that feeds into it. There usually is a mild wind blowing across. I can't get my head around this at all.
I have my doubts about the altitude accuracy on those GPS gadgets. My Suunto Traverse shows weird elevation fluctuations (+/- 3m), more than what waves or tides would account for (during a ~2 hour swim). I leave it on the boat with Pete, because it doesn't track accurately when I wear it on my wrist, plus, I hate wearing watches. I believe this model was designed for hiking, so I wouldn't recommend it for swimming, although it has done the job it was intended for, tracking distance and time from the boat.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
Those fluctuations are normal.
You can't get more accurate readings than that.
http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy
The U.S. government is committed to providing GPS to the civilian community at the performance levels specified in the GPS Standard Positioning Service (SPS) Performance Standard. For example, the GPS signal in space will provide a "worst case" pseudorange accuracy of 7.8 meters at a 95% confidence level. (This is not the same as user accuracy; pseudorange is the distance from a GPS satellite to a receiver.)
The actual accuracy users attain depends on factors outside the government's control, including atmospheric effects, sky blockage, and receiver quality. Real-world data from the FAA show that their high-quality GPS SPS receivers provide better than 3.5 meter horizontal accuracy.
http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
There is another contender: Apple Watch Series 2.
It is now waterproof to 50m, has GPS and pool/open water programming. Apple metabolically tested some 700+ swimmers of all body types/abilities to give accurate estimates of calories burned, and they state that the watch will learn your stroke efficiency, and refine its algorithm so the calorie counting is fairly accurate for you, for that swim. I think it could become an interesting metric of swim workout quality, especially for repeated workouts.
Product announcement: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=smT6kFlacM8
A surveyor when measuring accurate in 1 - 2 cm must stand still for 2- 3 min with his GPS device.![theodoliet-op-driepoot-16343217[1]](http://marathonswimmers.org/forum/uploads/imageupload/454/VWMXQEKAU2PW.jpg "theodoliet-op-driepoot-16343217[1]")
You think a small GPS device/watch can do all that while moving?
In that time the device got to receive at-least 6 satellites signals in order to be able to eliminate bad signals. That's only for a spot on the map.
Now for measuring the hight of that spot you'll need an instrument that's levelled (impossible on a moving ship!) and that has an unobstructed view to a reverence point. (In this case on shore.)
http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
Thank you @Niek. I now know more than I ever imagined about GPS. I will ignore my elevation readings as they seem to just be noise that confuses my brain. I am going to continue with the assumption that I am always swimming uphill... ;)
I bought the Garmin 10 forerunner as my running gps 2-3 years ago, it works well out of the water but is now getting a bit stiff to use due to swimming, I fear the end is neigh. The bigger problem - for me at least - is satellite availability. It can take 5 minutes to log on which when you're wanting to start a run, swim or bike is a l.o.n.g time. I don't know if it's the watches fault or the fact I sit on the equator in a boring part of the world and there aren't many sats etc.. I can't say that the G10 performed well in the water either, I suspect being on my wrist underwater half the time is to blame however I don't wear a swim cap.
I generally find I run, bike and swim the same few routes and over time I know how far they are, so really I just need a timing device. For pool swimming a bezel is important for lap counting, otherwise a quick glance at the clock or watch is sufficient for me.
I just bought this budget watch: good looking and functional. I wish I could say the same about myself.
https://www.amazon.com/Seiko-SNE107P2-Rubber-Analog-Black/dp/B005HJQY22/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1474361505&sr=8-4&keywords=seiko+diver+quartz
Well in that case, it must be true... And successful. I can go back to waiting for the postal service to deliver the reimbursement check from the health insurer that I got to keep because I liked them. Oh. Wait...
"Lights go out and I can't be saved Tides that I tried to swim against Have brought be down upon my knees Oh I beg, I beg and plead..."
Here's a swimmer's review: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/23/apple-watch-swimming/
Quick question for anyone with a Suunto. Can you export or download the GPS tracks recorded as a GPX file?
@phodgeszoho Yes, you can export as a GPX very easily (also exports as KML, XLSX, FIT, or TCX format).