110 miles, 53 hours: Questions for Diana Nyad

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  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member
    Another DN obfuscation that continues to perplex me is:

    I heard her claim several times, with vim and vigor, on national news circuit shows that
    "all the complete evidence (captains logs, observers logs) have been submitted to the appropriate bodies..."

    Has anyone seen anything more than the initial, incomplete observer logs?
    As I recall, the one male observer posted something incomplete, and the other female observer posted "part 1 of 3" (and a written "summary" of her actual log, strangely) and nothing more.

    To watch DN make that bold faced lie and not one of these high profile, so-called journalists do a simple fact check is one the most egregious acts of 'uninspiring' moral/ethical breakdowns I've witnessed in my life!
    docshock
  • As a long time redditor like @evmo, I think the later responses to what he and I posted in that thread went far better than expected and were more widely read also. Normally an IAMA is only alive for about 6 hours or read for maybe 10 to 12. Any external analysis of the thread will now show our counter-balancing comments and questions, which was my only purpose when I got there. Thanks to @ColmBreathnach for the heads-up.

    @DanSimonelli, you are of course correct, she has repeated those lies about providing proof everywhere and ad nauseum.

    @West my favourite question which occurred before we got there, but had been downvoted out of sight because of the celebrity-cult of the reddit IAMA, was "But didn't you cheat?".

    Think abut that. That's the result of this forum and everyone here. Random people have heard she's a cheat.
  • jvjjvj Member
    "I've thoroughly enjoyed watching you compete at the Olympic level as well as cheering you on during your Cuba swim."
    "...compete at the Olympic level"??? She was a mediocre swimmer at best. Nowhere near what anyone would consider "Olympic level".
  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMember
    Hagiography of DN in the most recent issue of The New Yorker:

    "BREAKING THE WAVES: In her sixties, a swimmer revives an old dream."

    The author mentions no controversy/questions about the 2013 swim.

    -Daniel
  • JBirrrdJBirrrd Senior Member
    hagiography |ˌhagēˈägrəfē, ˌhāgē-| noun
    the writing of the lives of saints.

    Nice 50 cent word.
    Can't read the entire article as I don't subscribe to The New Yorker.
  • suziedodssuziedods Charter Member
    If the author has no mention of the controversy, it's not a good article or a complete picture. I swear that woman will do anything to stay in the press.

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited February 2014
    Here is a PDF of the Nyad profile in the current New Yorker:

    http://marathonswimmers.org/assets/nyad/Nyad_NewYorker.pdf

    (8.2MB download)
  • IronMikeIronMike Moscow, RussiaCharter Member
    OMG! I'm only one paragraph in and already I'm reeling. "...breaking the record by nearly an hour" talking about Manhattan. Ugh!
  • IronMikeIronMike Moscow, RussiaCharter Member
    OK, finished page one. Took a while. What her last three Cuba-Florida swims that I've followed has done to me is that I feel I have to "fact check" every damn paragraph that these journalists are writing.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited February 2014
    I have been a New Yorker subscriber continuously since my freshman year of college, and this is... disappointing.

    I encourage any forum member who feels inspired to write a Letter to the Editor:

    http://www.newyorker.com/contact/contactus
  • IronMikeIronMike Moscow, RussiaCharter Member
    @evmo, have you been fact-checking as you go? I'm getting tired of trying to check their facts. Find any errors? (N.B., I'm only on page 2.)
  • IronMikeIronMike Moscow, RussiaCharter Member
    OK, now the article is getting gross.
  • IronMikeIronMike Moscow, RussiaCharter Member
    So I think prednisone and oxygen count as "assisted." ;)
  • IronMikeIronMike Moscow, RussiaCharter Member
    $350,000 is a lot of money in the 1970's?!?!?! It's a lot of freaking money NOW!
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member
    edited February 2014
    Where's Walter Poenish.
    I miss his crossing in the article.

    I read it all as an article written by DN herself and than the reporter submitted it under her own name: Ariel Levy.

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    In the New Yorker article, Nyad repeated some rather disturbing allegations against her high school swim coach, Jack Nelson. Nelson was an Olympian in 1956 and subsequently had a hall-of-fame coaching career in Florida. Nelson, now 82, denies the accusations.

    As article about the controversy is here:

    http://www.swimvortex.com/another-shocker-from-the-vault-diana-nyad-vs-jack-nelson/
  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member
    '...Stoll began to gather information: "Let's figure out the nutrition; let's write to people. But nobody really knows."
    What they wanted to do had never been accomplished by anyone, male or female, at any age.'

    I guess this New Yorker writer doesn't read the WSJ! Or she may have realized that DN had 'apologized' for her untoward actions against Walter Poenish...oh, and that someone else had swum from Cuba to FL!!

    These two publications have sorely disappointed.
    Merely "rags" to me now, lacking any real confidence in their journalistic integrity!
  • bobswimsbobswims OregonCharter Member
    edited February 2014
    evmo said:
    You can't take this article seriously. The first sentence breaks my rule that no sentence shall exceed 50 words, (The rule itself is a joke because if a sentence is long enough that you find yourself counting the words, it is too long)
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited February 2014
    "a tale...
    ...full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing."

  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member
    "a tale...
    ...full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing."

    With a lot of talk about their north current but still no proof of it's actual existence.

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • IronMikeIronMike Moscow, RussiaCharter Member
    Sure does look like a wetsuit...
    JBirrrd
  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member
    From the summary text under the video on the Motherboard site:

    "Before launching into any sport, it's important to know three things: the rules, the stakes, and when to quit. In the case of Diana Nyad, the resolute 64-year-old long-distance swimmer, acknowledging two out of three ain't bad."

    ;-)
  • bobswimsbobswims OregonCharter Member
    After the competition is over, Diana will write up the rules and declare herself the winner.
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member
    It's my pleasure to announce that the winner of the 2014 People's Choice Adventurer of the Year election from National Geografic is Kilian Jornet. DN didn't make it. #-o http://adventure.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/adventurers-of-the-year/2014/kilian-jornet-photos/

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • That's actually great. There have been some great Nat Geo Adventurer winners. Had Diana Nyad been associated with 2008 overall winner winner Sherpa Pemba Gyalje, I for one would have been sickened and it would have annoyed me far more than most of her stupid self-serving antics.
  • gregocgregoc Charter Member
    @loneswimmer, I was refering to the 2014 winner, Kilian Jornet.


    "Kilian Jornet, the 2014 People's Choice Adventurer of the Year, is redefining what is possible in the mountains by blurring the lines between trail running and technical climbing. In 2013, the 26-year-old Catalonian set a new speed record running up and down the Matterhorn in two hours and 52 minutes. He also set a record on Mont Blanc. These peaks are part of his four-year Summits of My Life project, in which Jornet will attempt new speed records on the world's most iconic mountains."
  • loneswimmerloneswimmer Admin
    edited March 2014
    Sorry @Gregoc I was at cross purposes there! Deleted my irrelevant non-sequitur!
  • bruckbruck San FranciscoMember
    Diana's official YouTube channel has been scrubbed:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/DianaNyad/featured
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member
    http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/09/01/key-west-to-honor-diana-nyads-record-setting-swim/
    Monday’s ceremony at Smathers Beach featured Keys officials unveiling a bronze plaque that is to be installed by the City of Key West on the promenade wall in front of the beach. Plans call for a life-size sculpture of Nyad, to be commissioned by the Key West Art in Public Places Board, to augment the plaque at a later date.

    Exodus 22-20
    He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • “When someone says to me, ‘Are you going to do it again?’, I just shake my head and say, ‘Are you insane? Why would I do that again?’ There are other mountains to climb,” said Nyad. “This one was a 35-year dream, and it’s over. How could you have a better story and a better ending?”
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member
    edited September 2014
    It's still an unproven feat for me.

    After a year still no documentation provided to the community to prove all her claims.
    Till she does she's the biggest scam artist there is.
    But all documents shown a year after the claimed event won't be to reliable any more. Too much time with the ability to doctor them has passed.

    Now I can't prove all this but neither can/did she prove me wrong.
    loneswimmer

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    Stranger things have happened in Key West.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic
  • KNicholasKNicholas ArizonaCharter Member
    After September 11, I held my tongue. All of the public positions had been taken -- for, against, good, evil. I had nothing more to add. So I thought, Bring in the clowns, you know what I mean? That's why I've done a coupla years' worth of comedies.
    -- Jack Nicholson

    After Nyad, . . .
    IronMikeNiek
  • suziedodssuziedods Charter Member
    I pondered posting to this thread again and am ambivalent but my one thought , after seeing Chloe stumble out of the water, face swollen, unsteady to say the least, tearful... was... THAT is what one looks like after 40+ hours in the water.

    And.. that is NOT what Nyad looked like at all.
    NiekswimdailylakespraypavlicovIronMikerosemarymintloneswimmerdpm50

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member
    She would have IF she had swum the whole time and distance......
    lakespraypavlicov

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • TheodoreTheodore Member
    edited August 29
    So , what is the MSF view ? Did Diana swim the whole way and has her swim been recognised?
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member
    Does Santa Claus really exist?
    It's as rhetorical as your questions.

    My answers are NO and NO.

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member
    Having just witnessed Chloe's swim first hand, I can say that i now have a much greater respect for whatever DN did in the water but I aslo feel more disdain for the way it was marketed and misrepresented.
    jkormanikSpacemanspiffmjstaplesDredpiraterobtsIronMike

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • WarmWaterWarmWater SingaporeMember
    Which is probably going to be as good an appreciation as we're going to get.
  • IronMikeIronMike Moscow, RussiaCharter Member

    Anyone else find it humourous (that's for you Donal) that DN has titled her latest book "Find a Way"? ;)

    lakespray
  • pavlicovpavlicov NYCSenior Member
    edited October 2015

    Anytime this thread resurfaces, I get depressed. Can we bury everything about her, never say her name and forget that she exists? Unless of course, someone has a video or her being on the boat during her swim ...

    AnthonyMcCarley
  • @pavlivcov, No, not by me. Because then the only community who understands the issue would not be heard. We may be a tiny voice, but I know a lot of people have heard us and those that have can see and balance the lies and deception against the unanswered questions.

    suziedodslakesprayevmoAnthonyMcCarleyrosemarymintDanSimonellibluemermaid9
  • dpm50dpm50 PA, U.S.Senior Member

    When I even gently suggest to friends who mention her that there are a lot of unanswered questions about the help she revived, many will jump to her defense. People don't like to see doubt cast on their heroes and when someone gets played up in the media as a hero, anyone who questions that status is dismissed as just jealous or a naysayer. Took a long time for ppl to awaken to Lance Armstrong's drug use. Eventually they did. I think people don't want to accept that their superhuman heroes aren't as superhuman as they thought.

  • NoelFigartNoelFigart Lebanon, NHSenior Member

    Among my friends, when I am discussing swimming, I'll be asked if I want to be like Ms. Nyad. When I say quietly, "Not really, no. I prefer independent observation and better documentation," it seems to open the dialog in a way that people are willing to listen.

    dpm50suziedodsNiekAnthonyMcCarleyrosemarymintJSwim
  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member

    I'll tell you why it's important for our voices to be heard and to decry our anti-hero sentiment loud and clear...and for me it's not about whether she swam some long ass swim or not. It's that she's profiteering (anyone look at what she's getting for some of her speaking engagements?! And twice I've seen her bio billing her as "Olympian"...wtf?!) based on a life of lies, deceit, and ruining lives along her way! If we who know better don't continue to oppose the myth and fallacy, then the loud mouth will be the only one heard and the story (myth) becomes people's truth, misguided as that is.

    "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. - JFK

    loneswimmerdpm50JenANiekIronMikegregocrosemarymintslknightsuziedodsevmoand 4 others.
  • I had this lined up for a blog post, but I may as well put it here:

    Turning once again, and this time more generally, to the question of Swim Frauds, I would observe that there has never been a period in all these long centuries of which we boast when an absolute guarantee against deception, still less against complete fraud, could have been given to the general public.

    In the days of Webb and Ederle, [... ] the same wind which would have carried swimmers across the Channel might have driven away the Aspirants. There was always the chance, and it is that chance which has excited and befooled the imaginations of many Aspirants. Many are the tales that are told.

    We are assured that novel methods will be adopted, and when we see the originality of deceit, the ingenuity of misrepresentation, which those Motivational Speakers display, we may certainly prepare ourselves for every kind of novel stratagem and every kind of brutal and treacherous manœuvre. I think that no idea is so outlandish that it should not be considered and viewed with a searching, but at the same time, I hope, with a steady eye. We must never forget the solid assurances of the Marathon Swimming Community and prompt those with hard-won experience to get locally exercised.

    I have, myself, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and if the best reports are made, as they are being made by MSF and CS&PF and SBCSA and others, we shall prove ourselves once more able to defend our sport and our values, to ride out the storm of deceit, and to outlive the menace of individual frauds, if necessary for years, if necessary alone. At any rate, that is what we are going to try to do. That is the resolve of the Marathon Swimmer's Forum– almost every one of them. That is the will of the average swimmers and the pioneers. The Channel and Marathon communities linked together in their cause and in their need, will defend their hard-won water, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength.

    Even though large tracts of the Media and some old and famous Associations have fallen or may fall into the grip of Conflicts of Interest and all the odious apparatus of fraud and self-promotion, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall swim to France, we shall swim in the seas and oceans, we shall swim with growing confidence and growing strength, we shall defend our community, whatever the cost may be. We shall swim from the beaches, we shall swim in the Channels and we shall swim in the lakes and in the rivers; we shall never cheat, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, this sport or a large part of it were misled and corrupt, then our community of the water, piloted by True Pilots and observed by True Observers, would carry on the struggle, until, in Webb's good time, the Honest Swimmer, in all their elegance and glory, steps out of the water to the rescue of our trust and the liberation of our sport.

    The historically-minded amongst you will recognise it as a repurposed version of Churchill's Fight Them On the Beaches House of Commons June 1940 speech.

    NieksuziedodsevmoDanSimonelliJSwim
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsCharter Member

    I have high hopes that the evidence will finally will be revealed. A strong weapon has been engaged.Image10

    JenADanSimonellisuziedodsJSwimrosemarymintssthomasflystormsVLM

    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!

  • swimrn62swimrn62 NY, NYMember

    Hysterical!

    If anyone wants to question her face to face, she's giving a free talk at the Hilton Hotel in NYC.
    Link is here: https://www.runmyclub.com/hudson/eventcalendar.asp?id=208881 Promo code is Diana for free entry.

  • suziedodssuziedods Charter Member

    She is also at the Marin JCC, Oct 29 I was offered a ticket. #1- I don't think I could bear to be in the same room and #2- my tendency to speak off the cuff could get me thrown out...

    NiekDanSimonellilakesprayssthomas

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

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