110 miles, 53 hours: Questions for Diana Nyad

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  • IronMikeIronMike Arlington, VACharter Member

    I can't find the interview on CNN other than the short segment, but here is a link to the ABC segment:

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/09/diana-nyad-to-confront-cuba-swim-skeptics/

    Damn you iPod and Flash!

    Please join the Lake Issyk Kul Swimming Federation on FB!

  • paulm said:

    Does anyone know if the google earth download of the track on DN's site- a manually produced document (working off manually produced cordinates ) or a copy of a spot track ???

    I posted that - it's the Spot track. I wrote a little code to export what's in the site's db to kml and gpx. You'll notice the spreadsheet link on the site is identical to the one I posted here.

  • paulmpaulm Senior Member
    Thanks b9chris
  • ChickenOSeaChickenOSea Charter Member
    IronMike said:

    I can't find the interview on CNN other than the short segment, but here is a link to the ABC segment:

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/09/diana-nyad-to-confront-cuba-swim-skeptics/

    Damn you iPod and Flash!
    Thanks Rosemary,
    IronsexistMike, I just looked it on my laptop and it's only a couple of sentences. Enjoyed it and want to see the whole interview/discussion. Hopefully I can find the full thing on tv tomorrow before I go to work.
  • I must say that I am pleasantly surprised by the quality of the media coverage on this issue. The interviews with Evan and Grace were really nice and interesting to listen to. I also think it has been really nice the way Diana's team has been willing to share their GPS data, and I hope the discussion tomorrow goes well.

    I may be a little late to the game on this issue, but just wanted to quantify some of issues with Diana's speed and the assertion by her team that she got a rare Northward current assist. I will preface this saying that I am a physicist by training, so I'm to handling data and vectors and all that, but I am not an oceanographer so I'm slightly outside my area of expertise.

    I've been looking around for current data for the dates of her swim, and so far the best I could find was the NCSU model available on the SECOORA website (a few people have posted images from this site earlier in this thread). This Regional Ocean Model uses a combination of satellite and buouy data with a detailed numerical model to get the current, temperature, salinity etc in the region with very good spatial and temporal resolution. These models aren't perfect, but they are used in things like hurricane forecasting, tracking pollution (eg the BP oil spill) and things like that so a lot of work goes into them.

    I overlaid Diana's GPS positions on the surface current flow fields for the days and times corresponding to her swim. A few are shown below, the rest are available as a movie shared on google drive. The purple arrow shows the magnitude and direction of the current at Diana's position at each given time. As you can see in the examples below, the current is mostly perpendicular to her and I do not see the rare south-north current they claim to have ridden.

    image

    image

    image

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-PBnlGWL25caW5wX1ozcFNoMm8/edit?usp=sharing

    (let me know if you have trouble with the movie)

    Plotting her speed, bearing, as well as the current's speed and bearing, you see that this is generally the case for whole swim. (I used the same gps data set as in my last post, just took only the data at 3 hour intervals after applying a 3-point average to the raw data). If you add up vector for the current and her absolute velocity to get the speed she must have been swimming to maintain her course, you see that if anything the current makes things worse, since she has to account for the very strong cross current.

    image

    This isn't completely definitive, the true currents could differ from the NCSU model. However, they would have to differ by a whole lot. Like, pointing almost a full 90degs in a different direction. A 'rare current' like this should show up in other oceanographic data, and not just be localized to her boat crew. If there is some other data somewhere showing a 2mph current from Cuba to Key West during her swim, that would make the speed issue disappear. But absent that, both general picture for how the gulf stream works and specific modeling info for the days of her swim paint a very different picture.
  • As often is the case, the comments to the article prove the most fun reading, first one first!
  • MvGMvG Brussels (BE) and Lith (NL)Charter Member
  • JBirrrdJBirrrd MarylandSenior Member
    "Janet Hinkle, a Key West boat captain and acquaintance of Nyad's, was called to be an observer for the swim when Steve Munatones, a former U.S. national open-water coach, was unable to make it." (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57601879/diana-nyad-team-becoming-sensitive-to-skeptics/)


    OK this just struck me last night. A while ago I read the explanation from DN's team of why she had 2 unknown to the open water swimming community official observers for this particular swim. They had lined up Steven Munatones (http://openwaterpedia.com/index.php?title=Steven_Munatones) for that role but when it was go time, he was unavailable. I believe I read he was on a flight to Japan. So they had to scramble and ask 2 people with no reported open water experience and no known training to play such a critical role in a swim that would no doubt gain worldwide attention if successful.

    Gosh, that makes sense, right? Gotta do, what ya gotta do.

    Then I recalled the report from Chloe McCardel's team about her observers:

    Observer 1 Dan Simonelli http://openwaterpedia.com/index.php?title=Dan_Simonelli

    Observer 2 Grace Van Der Bye (Grace will also do some paddling )
    http://openwaterpedia.com/index.php?title=Grace_van_der_Byl

    Reserve Observer Jen Schumacher. http://openwaterpedia.com/index.php?title=Jen_Schumacher http://www.marathonswimmers.org/forum/discussion/327/chloe-mccardel-cuba-to-florida-swim/p1

    How cool is that, I thought. I know them all. Strong team of observers...

    So it strikes me odd that Diana's Team had only arranged for one observer for a swim that was projected to take over 70 hours (Sorry Steven, not allowed to sleep) But Chloe McCardel, a foreigner, travelling from half-way across the world, on a shoestring budget, was able to arrange for not one but three highly qualified and experienced observers from the marathon swimming community. Diana Nyad's team says they also had limited resources (no gps device--had to loan one) but everything I see and read screams the contrary (nice 4 boat flotilla.)

    I realize this is late, but please add this to my list of questions:
    Why did Diana's team only arrange for one qualified official observer?
  • lcolettelcolette Charter Member
    OK, I have been good. But I did see numerous articles where she is going to meet her peers in the OW community today "Tuesday - 9-10-2013." Anyone here on that list? I couldn't find the list or a list of her 3 OW swimming world organization she is going to submit her swim to. I think we have already established that Guiness won't accept after the fact...

    I am curious to see who she considers her peers?
  • edited September 2013
    @jroyer. I'm confused. I thought this matter was resolved when a Mitch Roffer was cited (who seems affiliated with SECOORA from his C.V.) as saying the currents were most definitely pushing her north? http://secoora.org/sites/default/files/webfm/news/documents/may2012_election/Mitch_Roffer.pdf
    Is it possible there are more detailed charts not available to the public?

  • timsroottimsroot Spring, TXCharter Member
  • @tricoachmartin
    It certainly could be the case that there is some better data somewhere that would show the gyre that Roffer mentioned in the nytimes article. Roffer does have a phd in biological oceanography, and quite likely access to data that I don't have.

    However, given that this conflicts pretty strongly with the data that is publicly available, I'd like see some of this made public instead of just having a single person give their assessment. Most people looking online for current data that day saw something moving west to east, and which raised questions about her speed. A map showing a 2mph current pointing toward Key West would put these questions to rest.
  • Mike Lewis, author of the swimswam article will be part of the review. The article displays that two different people can look at the same event and reach different conclusions. It was that same swim in 2011 and those events he mentioned that he found positive that changed me from being interested and a supporter to otherwise.

    Changing the governing rules during a swim is not an option ever available to any of us. This possibility had never been mentioned beforehand and the issue of getting on the boat was another aspect that was once again raised in 2012, without any clear indication either time.

    This is why I repeatedly say that a Golden Rule is, you must state what the rules are before a swim (that will not be following usual EC rules).

    Since this is repeatedly wrong in many of the articles, we should stress also for the lazy journalists reading here who are still uncomprehending, that English Channel Rules do not merely apply to the English Channel. Since it was the first and remains the standard, they derive from those rules and are used, with known published exceptions such as Cook, to apply to "standard" marathon swimming around the world.

    http://www.loneswimmer.com The World's Most Popular Open Water Swimming Blog

  • rosemarymintrosemarymint Charleston, SCCharter Member


    Since this is repeatedly wrong in many of the articles, we should stress also for the lazy journalists reading here who are still uncomprehending, that English Channel Rules do not merely apply to the English Channel. Since it was the first and remains the standard, they derive from those rules and are used, with known published exceptions such as Cook, to apply to "standard" marathon swimming around the world.

    This is probably one of the most important messages to people outside the sport. They see the reference to EC rules and think those rules only apply to that particular body of water. They don't grasp that EC rules are the foundational standard and verification method of the sport and that those methods are used worldwide so that swimmers have a set of equalization standards in which to compared themselves with (sorry, just threw all of my journalism training out the window there and replaced it with grad school speak.) The bare-bones rules exist BECAUSE nearly all deviations make the swim easier.

    I loved Grace's comment on her interview yesterday regarding making things harder. I can't quote it at the moment because I'm at work and can't play video, but I think that's a message that also needs to be conveyed strongly to those outside the sport.

    Also note, I don't necessarily think the lack of comprehension among some journalists is laziness. I think it really just is a reflection of the fact that reporters have to report/write fast, be dropped in on something we know nothing about and manage to make sense out of it. Please note that the MSM is rarely going to get the details that one particular community cares most about because of that as well as the assumption that their audience isn't going to care about that. That is a trait that transcends nearly every complex topic a reporter may have to cover. Also, research methods training is not a strong suit among journos -- and this discussion ultimately is about methods.
  • Thanks @rosemarymint, you and @Jgal are not in least included as my target, I know you are both careful in your comments. Mike Lewis however is a swimming journalist for a swim blog/website, who has interviewed many long distance swimmers. I don't think he has the excuse of lack of time other may claim to dismiss EC rules, as not being relevant since the swim wasn't in the EC. He has more of a responsibility to explain therefore why they are important and used, as you have so ably just demonstrated.

    http://www.loneswimmer.com The World's Most Popular Open Water Swimming Blog

  • rosemarymintrosemarymint Charleston, SCCharter Member
    I was referring more to the mainstream media missing key components in certain stories than Mike Lewis. He without question has a responsibility to explain the reasoning behind EC rules in his work because he is writing for a swimming audience. I don't know how to describe why that is missing in his work because I have not personally talked to him, but yeah. Just as I have a responsibility to explain certain technical things in my work on subjects in my expertise and of high interest to my readership, he has the same and I would hope he does that in follow-up stories on this topic and in future stories regarding marathon swimming.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited September 2013
    We need to keep in mind that the swimming media, and Mike Lewis in particular, are more about cheerleading than actual reporting.

    A real reporter would also reference sources, which in this case is the forum. Even the major news outlets that know nothing about swimming managed to do that.
  • timsroottimsroot Spring, TXCharter Member
    edited September 2013
    From Lewis's article:
    Nyad’s critics also assert that her swim is tarnished because she didn’t not adhere to English Channel rules – purportedly she was touched by her crew when they aided her in applying sunscreen and lubricants that prevent chaffing. OK, so? This wasn’t the English Channel. The English Channel is just short of 21 miles – Nyad swam over 5 times this distance. There is no reason why her swim should be tarnished based upon a lack of adherence to these rules.
    I personally don't have a huge problem with her not adhering to EC rules. I don't think that many of us really have that big a problem with it, either. Penny Palfrey didn't during her attempt last year, and no one said boo about it. The biggest difference, as has been mentioned here at length, is that Palfrey was clear about what she was attempting, and the rules by which she was attempting it. Perhaps that's cherry picking the rules, but she was up front and transparent about it. Nyad wasn't, and hasn't been in previous attempts, either.

    This point is the one that raises so many concerns among the now infamous marathon swimming community, not that she used a stinger suit or a mask or a streamer or a marching band or a partridge in a pear tree. It's also the point that journalists seem to gloss over.

    Sure, the swim would be even more impressive if it was done in strict adherance with EC rules. But Mr. Lewis is right when he says it isn't the English Channel. But, as @loneswimmer and plenty of others have said

    This is why I repeatedly say that a Golden Rule is, you must state what the rules are before a swim (that will not be following usual EC rules).

    (I would also add that if you are going to stay within EC rules, you should state so, to avoid anything being implied that the swimmer does not intend to)

  • GordsGords Salt Lake City, UTCharter Member
    http://www.today.com/video/today/52970207#52970207

    I'm no oceanographer, and this Mitchell Roffer has a pretty impressive background.
  • NatalieswimsNatalieswims Orange County, CAMember
    Where is the video of her on the "electronic walkway?"
    Also, news media has not addressed her seven hour stretch w/o feeds.

  • rosemarymintrosemarymint Charleston, SCCharter Member
    I'd love to see the specific data/maps that Roffer is talking about. If anything, that type of data would be really valuable to other swimmers planning swims elsewhere.
  • GordsGords Salt Lake City, UTCharter Member
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited September 2013
    All considered, I think John Zarrella at CNN did a pretty good job:

    http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/10/did-diana-nyad-cheat

    The title gives interesting insight into their angle, which I did not have (but probably should have expected) during the interview. At several points I think they were trying to get me to say on camera that she cheated, or got on the boat, etc., but I avoided this and focused on the fact-gathering mission.

    Also - yet another reason to check your grammar & spelling before posting here - it might end up on TV!
  • Diana Nyad's PR team has done much to bring marathon swimming to the attention of the media. NPR followed it, as did the BBC, and therefore it was world news. She is quite a phenomenon, even drawing wide publicity for her previous unsuccessful attempts.
    By comparison, Trent Grimsey's superhuman EC conquest barely got any news coverage. Steve Redmond's (Oceans Seven) Ireland-to-Wales attempt hardly made the news.

    I cannot help but think that one of Nyad's goals was to detract from Suzie Moroney's accomplishment. "First without a shark cage." If memory serves, Nyad swam from Bimini to FL in a shark cage, and Stella Taylor did the same without one. If so, Nyad had no qualms about it then.
    Other minds will decide if her swim was assisted; there will always be a cloud over it. I wish there was a better balance in the news coverage of marathon swimming.
  • Hi all. New to the forum and just want to say how much I’ve enjoyed lurking about. I swam competitively thru college and just started back swimming several years ago after a 25 year break. Most of my competitive swimming has been sprinting (yes, I realize most on this forum consider any pool event a sprint) and have only done a few short (2-3 mile) lake swims but would like to get more involved in open water. So thanks in advance for all the help I will surely glean from this forum!

    I have one question on DN’s swim, or any open water swim for that matter. Do you benefit from swimming on one side of the support vessel verses the other? DN was on the starboard side, down current from the support vessel. Does she benefit from any drafting or shielding from the vessel as it tries to hold course against the current? It seems to me that if she had been on the other side the current would have pushed her more to her right and made it harder for the support vessel to hold its desired course, less it hit her. Just curious as I have absolutely no experience with open water currents.

    Thanks,
    Mark
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited September 2013
    A bit of a mixed bag from the Today Show on NBC.

    First, a fairly well balanced report by correspondent Mark Potter (oh hello there, @david_barra !):

    http://www.today.com/video/today/52970207#52970207

    Followed later by an unfortunate bout of know-nothing "commentary" by talking heads. Al Roker, you break my heart.

    http://www.today.com/news/diana-nyads-record-setting-swim-faces-skepticism-8C11112422
  • KarenTKarenT Charter Member
    I'm pretty sure that "buzziest" is not a word, so we can disregard that last talking heads segment. Well done on the report input though, @evmo and @david_barra.
  • JamieJamie Member
    edited September 2013
    I just got finished chatting with world renowned Sports Nutritionist - Stacy Sims. Stacy is a PHD Physiologist-Nutrition Scientist of Thermoregulation, Hydration, and Performance Nutrition. I have worked with Stacy on my swims. She has given me the OK to quote her

    no, it is not possible to not eat or drink for 7.5 hours in the middle if you want to finish the 53h swim! esp the drinking part !!

    With that being said there must be some miscommunication on Diana's team. She must have had some nutrition or this swim is impossible. I have read and heard from Diana's team that she did this to keep warm.

    Stacy says: hmmm.. but eating and drinking would keep her warm. ...

    Something is not right. I hope this is cleared up. In my opinion she must have had nutrition over this stretch. I have been sitting at my desk since breakfast - 5 hours ago and have not had anything to eat - I am close to bonking...
  • A little off topic, but....can we agree that the streamer is quite a huge aid as well? Suit or no suit, following an underwater streamer is cheating. Didn't want that to get lost in the shuffle. Yes, I know she announced she would be using it, but still. Might be worth mentioning that most (all?) other marathon swims forgo such bells and whistles.
    And yes, Evan and David made very good impressions on tv, I thought.
  • JimeboyJimeboy Temporary Suspension
    I've had friends of mine on FB tell me that those ( EC ) rules are out dated and it's not the English Channel anyway so why should they count? I often feel like I'm in the Bill Hicks comedy routine about flag burning...lol.... there is no explaining your way out. You just throw your hands up in the air and walk away shaking your head.
  • We have just been informed that the panel has now been opened up the media (CNN, AP, Reuters, WSJ & "others" are mentioned). We've also been told that we can pull out as a consequence if we wish, but there was no prior consultation. Speaking only for myself, I have been extremely wary of this since the start.

    We have nothing to hide, all our discussion are public but neither did I volunteer to make myself public. (You guys don't count , you are friends, some I just haven't met yet).

    I remembered today that I was supposed to be doing this for fun.

    I want to give shout out to Evan. He's been buried with media requests that I would have long ago baulked at, and not done as well at had I been thrust into the spotlight.

    I'm off to Dover in the very early morning for a stunningly exciting crewing prospect. My followup communication & moderation time will be limited at best. So Evan will have to handle even more! So everyone try to cut him slack in what he can respond to in the next week, I've been guilty of not doing that myself.

    The panel will be 2am for me. I've read this entire thread again today & I've had lots of messages & emails & a few calls from people. I believe that there are important details in the thread & messages. Given whatever time I have, I will however mostly NOT be focusing on these as I cannot effectively cross-examine an oceanographer. I intend to use what time I have to focus on what I, and many of you, believe are larger questions.

    http://www.loneswimmer.com The World's Most Popular Open Water Swimming Blog

  • dc_in_sfdc_in_sf San FranciscoCharter Member
    LSjswims said:

    A little off topic, but....can we agree that the streamer is quite a huge aid as well? Suit or no suit, following an underwater streamer is cheating. Didn't want that to get lost in the shuffle. Yes, I know she announced she would be using it, but still. Might be worth mentioning that most (all?) other marathon swims forgo such bells and whistles.

    Using a streamer is apparently legal on some (TCSA vs. TSSA) Tsugaru Channel swims so it is not unprecedented in the world of marathon swimming e.g. one was used by Stephen Redmond on his TC crossing if I recall correctly (and apologize in advance if did not).

    http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer

  • suziedodssuziedods Charter Member
    Kudos to Evan and Donal and EVERYONE who cares about this sport.
    It IS supposed to be fun.
    While I am not knowledgeable enough to be on a panel on national ( really ??) TV,I think the COLLECTIVE knowledge here is. ( does that make sense?)
    I dont care about the streamer, I really don't care about someone putting "makeup" on. I do care about the lack of documentation, the feeling that press is more important than a "spot me", the "anti- rooting" for Penny and McCardel, the feeling that asking the questions is somehow making us"haters'. We want the truth ( insert famous movie line here). That's all. Someone else is going to do this swim , at some point. It's definitely NOT a first. Speak the truth, we just want to know.

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • During this interview:
    http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/10/did-diana-nyad-cheat/
    DN says... "I'm sure the swim will be ratified in due time, and that's fine. But, I just don't care about it."

    Seems like an odd thing for her to say at this point.
  • As a former reporter, I just wanted to give some insight to my profession. I know some people were upset there wasn't more scrutiny from the beginning, but the wire service reporters and general assignment reporters aren't experts at marathon swimming. It's typical you report on a story and then later others question what was accomplished and demand documentation and proof. That's what this forum started and reporters started picking up on it and other stories and where we are at today. Some are upset the stories aren't focusing on the English Channel rules but that's an inside baseball issue that the reporters are going to mention in a few graphs. They are only interested in whether she swam the entire distance without getting out of the water or with the aid of a boat. There will be a lot of interest in what is said tonight and what documentation is given out. If the answer is we will get back to you or that is proprietary, that will raise more questions. Hopefully experts in the field will get in more questions than the reporters who won't ask the detailed questions you guys want. There will be some reporters who are going to want a list of everyone who took part in the swim to talk with them. But in the end it wouldn't surprise me if the skeptics aren't satisfied and no one knows 100 percent. She will say she did it and say her proof is sufficient and ask people to prove otherwise. The reporters will leave it up to some association to ratify it.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    IMPORTANT: If any Forum member has a question (or several) they would like one of the panel members to ask, please send me a PM. No guarantees, but we certainly welcome your ideas.

    Thanks!
  • Here is the NBC report and Nyad will be on Piers Morgan Wednesday night http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/52977455/?ocid=twitter#52977455
  • suziedodssuziedods Charter Member
    Random thought.... When Kevin Murphy swam 52 hours in the EC on his triple.... did anyone question him? NO.
    When Wendy Trehiou spent 39 hours in the EC recently on her EPIC two way.. did anyone question her? NO.
    Why? Kevin .. because of his history and I am sure there were observers and documentation.
    Wendy.. well , we all know Wendy... and she had a "spot me". And she had Cliff and others aboard to document.
    As I said.. random thoughts.

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • Thie blog post from malinaka gave me the source lat/lon data points from http://www.diananyad.com/swim/currentswim. 470 data points and like malinaka, I assumed data collected every 6-7 mins, i.e. 53h/470 = 6.75 mins.

    The following navigation chart is summarized by the hour +/- 6.75 mins using all 470 data points Diana's team have provided - select this link (pdf format): Diana Nyad Swim Data Points

    I've calculated Diana traveling a total 115.29 miles not 110. I don't believe the gps was on her - the added mileage could be due to boat maneuvering, maybe a slight rounding error in my calculations, gps errors, etc. However, I have Diana at 31.1 hours (31:06:45) at 62.21 miles and on diananyad.com they have Diana at 31 hours at 63.2 miles. So we line up pretty close given distance traveled.

    Stuart
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited September 2013
    First impressions...

    Tuesday evening's conference call was a significant episode in the history of the sport of marathon swimming, which likely never would have occurred without the collective voice of this Forum and its members.

    It is a credit to Diana Nyad and her team (navigator John Bartlett, crew chief Bonnie Stoll, observers Hinkle & McVeigh) for agreeing to the call, and answering questions from people who had expressed skepticism about certain aspects of the swim. I was impressed by navigator Bartlett's professionalism.

    The panel included Forum members @firebah, @rckayak, @roncollins, @coachsid, and @david_barra, along with @loneswimmer and myself. I was deeply impressed by all of these folks' contributions. They did the community proud. There were eight additional panel members, including CCSF president Forrest Nelson, who apparently has already been discussing the swim with Diana's team directly.

    Many major media outlets were listening on the line, and Reuters apparently recorded the call. It was a dial-in conference call, not Skype.

    Format:
    1. Opening statement from Diana
    2. Mostly technical discussion + Q&A with navigator Bartlett on how Diana & team managed to chart their course from Havana to Key West across the Gulf Stream. Each panel member got to ask one question (or a series of related question). Some declined. Some instead gave "statements," which I found not particularly helpful.
    3. Discussion + Q&A with Diana (and occasionally Bonnie) about how the swim was done - what forms of assistance were used, explanation of the mysterious 7.5-hour feeding gap, and related issues. Each panel member got to ask one question (or a series of related questions).

    Some of the discussion was quite informative, productive, and direct. Other parts felt a bit more directed at the media listening in, as responses occasionally wandered off the actual question that had been asked.

    In my opinion, it was a substantial first step in understanding Diana's swim. At the same time, by the nature of the medium, it was not possible to resolve all questions. This will take time. Some of these unresolved questions may be addressed by the release of the navigator's logs and observer's logs, which Diana's team has committed to doing immediately.

    Another unresolved issue is how the swim will be categorized in the record books.

    Diana adamantly denied ever exiting the water or making physical contact with a boat or kayak. When asked about touching the boat on last year's attempt, she said she didn't remember.

    Diana admitted she was touched by her handlers while changing into & out of the stinger suit, and while applying sunscreen & lotions.

    The 7.5-hour feed gap (originally reported by her crew) was chalked up to a "misquote."

    Unfortunately we never got to hear from the observers, but I look forward to reading their logs.

    I hope other forum members who were present will weigh in soon.
  • paulmpaulm Senior Member
    Hi Evan, Thanks for sharing- was there any feedback from DN/or her team on why Independent qualified observers were not used ? It appears to me that none of the discussions/questions post swim would have occurred if these people had been in place. ** Also does anyone know if DN' team had Independent qualified observers on past swims ?
  • JimeboyJimeboy Temporary Suspension
    Very cool. Thanks for doing it everybody. Perhaps some personal observations will come later on today from some of you? Sleep is over rated in this crowd I'm sure.
  • MvGMvG Brussels (BE) and Lith (NL)Charter Member
    Thanks a lot Evan. A good first step indeed.
    The potential killer issue remains the speed vs currents issue, of which some forum members have been giving such a good analysis. Was the issue of the alleged exceptionally favourable south-to-north current, when the archived data seem to indicate only a west-to-east current, addressed at all in your telephone conference?
  • lcolettelcolette Charter Member
    I guess the 7.5 hours without food went from a 'misquote' last night to an 'ugly rumor' according to Robin Roberts this morning on GMA....
    Interesting transition of a quoted comment to not being anything that Diana's team said. I lost a lot of respect for RR this morning.
  • IronMikeIronMike Arlington, VACharter Member
    evmo said:


    The panel included Forum members @firebah, @rckayak, @roncollins, @coachsid, and @david_barra, along with @loneswimmer and myself. I was deeply impressed by all of these folks' contributions. They did the community proud. There were eight additional panel members, including CCSF president Forrest Nelson, who apparently has already been discussing the swim with Diana's team directly.

    Thanks to you all for doing this.

    So we're supposed to take everything else the DN crew says as gospel, but accept that they were misquoted (aren't they the authors of the DN blog?) about not stopping DN "to eat or drink" because she had "gotten very cold" and that she was stopped to feed at 7:30 for her "first feeding stop since before midnight"?

    Saving these paragraphs from http://www.diananyad.com/blog/doctor-report-715am just in case these words change or disappear in the future:
    ...

    Diana has gotten very cold, so the handlers were not stopping her to eat and drink overnight in the hopes that swimming would keep her warm. Additionally it was difficult to get her oriented to the boat and where to go in the dark.

    Both doctors were aboard Voyager all night long to monitor Diana’s condition.

    Diana’s Condition Report, First Light
    Monday, 7:30 a.m., Swim time: 46:31

    When the whistle blew for Diana’s first feeding stop since before midnight, it took her longer than normal to reach Voyager and Handlers Bonnie, Pauline and Lois Ann, who were positioned on the swim platform near the water’s edge.

    ...

    Please join the Lake Issyk Kul Swimming Federation on FB!

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